meganbmoore | The Princess and the Frog

Christmas, supposedly?

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/news/the-princess-and-the-frog-controversy-or-innocence.php

I only read the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Frog), but it explains a little.

I think it's rather odd that no one was offended by the multitude of other ethnic princess, but because of where this princess is from people are getting up in arms--which is sad because a lot of my friends who are African American are happy with this movie, they're happy to finally have someone whom their little sisters can idealize now...

People just need to stop trying to find excuses to sue Disney--if they're so desperate for that, they should start with the lobotomy feeling I get from watching Hannah Montana...

Seconding this.

Plus it's fun to see Disney doing 2-d animation again. And those stills linked above look like it's going to be a very pretty movie.

It's interesting that it being set in New Orleans is one of the complaints, as it was a big factor in my interest.

The kiss doesn't break the curse, but turns her into a frog as well? That...is the kind of twist I like in fairy tale retellings?

Yeah, the few images I've seen are amazing and atmospheric, and Disney 2D animation fairy tales are something I hugely imprinted on when younger.

I remember comments about Pocahontas regarding history, and have seen some complaints about how Mulan represents Chinese society (both being valid complaints) but I've never really seen anyone complain about Pocahontas, Mulan, Esmeralda or Jasmine (and I feel Nala should be included here, too) in terms of being suitable heroines for young girls, and I get the impression that that's part of the concern here.

I've built up a resistance to Hannah Montana. I blame the scene I accidentally watched where Lilly sees a gossip rag with a photoshopped Miley as a boy and says she makes a hot boy, and miley says she'd date Lilly if she were a boy. Like Suite Life of Zack and Cody, it makes me go "But Disney! Are you deliberately implying half your heroines are closet lesbians? I must watch more and find out!"

I think it's rather odd that no one was offended by the multitude of other ethnic princess,

*laughing* Noooo... maybe you didn't hear about it, but there were plenty of people criticizing Pocahontas, Mulan and Jasmine. (Well, not Jasmine so much as the movie's treatment of Arabic culture, but there *was* criticism.) Google "Disney Pocahontas controversy" or "Disney Aladdin stereotypes," etc.

they're happy to finally have someone whom their little sisters can idealize now...

Which is great, but it doesn't change the fact that Disney decided to make the hero light-skinned and the evil voodoo-using villain darker-skinned. And in the first draft of the movie, she wasn't even a princess, she was a servant.

I think it's rather odd that no one was offended by the multitude of other ethnic princess

Actually, quite a few folks that I know of were extremely critical (http://www.bluecorncomics.com/pocahont.htm) of the stereotypes and historical inaccuracies in Disney's Pocahontas, including the actual Powhatan Renape Nation (http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com/2008/05/powhatan-statement-on-pocahontas.html). Aladdin came in for a lot of criticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(film)#Controversies) too, to the point where the lyrics of the opening song were changed for the soundtrack and video releases. Mulan (http://tsoidug.org/Papers/Disney_Mulan.pdf) and The Hunchback of Notre Dame (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/DISNEY+CONTENT+CONTROVERSY+HEATS+UP-a083950228) also took their share of heat.

The issue I've heard the most about is that originally she wasn't even going to be a princess, but a maid. Along with the voodoo practicing villain.

Disney has yet to do a cartoon centered around a character of color that wasn't pretty sketchy in its racial implications.

Ahaha yeah I was just linked to examples of that by a friend of mine who I was talking with about this--the example they brought up was interestingly enough Mulan--I suppose I was too young to notice this and my other Chinese/Asian friends in general just never had a problem with it either, so it was more an mis-wording on my part, I was about to edit but people commented soo yeah...

I haven't heard much of that, but I do know that when I was a youngish teen, I had no idea how overwhelmingly physically stereotyped Jafar was. By the time I learned,the love for the movie was deeply ingrained, but there was still serious "What Disney? Really?" over that.

About her being a servant...do you know when it's set? (I suspect I'm just automatically assuming it's not set in the present.) Because, while I hate to say it, there has to be some balance between what's politically correct, and the setting. Like, I think you can have something about a black servant girl in, say, the 1930s, and still be respectful. Mind you, that you CAN do something doesn't mean there's a great probability that you WILL...

I think the maid thing is sliding by me because, it being a Disney fairy tale, I'm automatically assuming it'll be set in the past. (And it may also be significant that my two favorite Disney heroines-Mulan and Meg-weren't princesses.)

Shrek did it.

Actually I was about to edit that because I was the group chat I'm in promptly sent me a link to prove me that I was mis-informed otherwise about a second after I hit sent. I suppose I was just sheltered in that aspect because I never focused on those elements? I never really found myself that openly offended by Mulan really but apparently a lot of people felt differently...maybe it was cause I was just a kid but Mulan just...made me proud that I was part Chinese in some odd way. Course now I'm sure I can rewatch it and easily feel differently...

I actually hadn't had more clarification on that part till now actually since the example given to me at the time was "she's like Belle" and I assumed that meant lower middle-class working family type situation. On that note, I actually hadn't heard much about the villains--only that it was something about voodoo. I guess I'm somewhat colorblind in this aspect or just used to this kind of thing from Disney in general--the only Asian kids in the 'Proud Family' are some kind of math super geniuses that I know none of my family is--but I'm honestly not surprised ~~especially when I'm linked to articles like these (http://www.cracked.com/article_15677_9-most-racist-disney-characters.html)~~. Still, I can't help hope maybe they'll respond to this feedback and just work better next time...though sadly I know otherwise.

I misspoke about her being a princess (or a daughter in a wealthy family, like I'd thought), according to the wikipedia article, she isn't. Regardless, I think it would have been problematic for Disney's first and only black heroine to be a maid whether it was set in the past or not.

I heard some complaints over her hair being in line with European beauty standards though I couldn't find a link to such right now.

Very true. I admit, the Disney bashing makes it a bit difficult for me to like that movie as much as i want to. (The curse also didn't work for e the way I suspect it does for others because I'm not alwas big on "You should be true to and find your true self! Which is the exact opposite of what you want!")

Very true, and I suspect there's some subconscious waving around of white privilege going on here on my part.

I did notice that she seems to be in the typical European Disney Princess getup in the pictures I've seen. (Specifically, it reminds me of Conderella.)

maybe it was cause I was just a kid but Mulan just...made me proud that I was part Chinese in some odd way. Course now I'm sure I can rewatch it and easily feel differently...

See, I don't really think a story has to be *perfect* in order for it to be a positive thing for kids (or even grownups.) Sometimes it's enough to just say "Hey look, that person's like me! And she exists! And is kickass! That rocks!" (and even though I'm white, I feel this way about other types of characters that *I* identify with in certain ways.)

But yeah, that doesn't mean Disney never makes mistakes, or couldn't do better.

Yeah, when my friend first linked it I was really surprised at the quality of it all, I'm just excited in general they're going to do 2D again, here's to hoping it doesn't...well, blow up more in their face...

Like, I think you can have something about a black servant girl in, say, the 1930s, and still be respectful. Mind you, that you CAN do something doesn't mean there's a great probability that you WILL...

I think it's during the Jazz Age? So, 1920s, maybe?

And I think you definitely *could* do a good story about a black servant girl, and it's not even so much that it's not "respectful" to portray the black princess as a servant, because it really would be all in how you handled the story... (although I really do doubt they would handle it well. Like, either she's the "sassy, spunky Black Best Friend" type who is happy to be a servant, or the downtrodden, humble Cinderella type who is long-suffering and noble and good, and... I just don't know, really.) It just seems like, you know, for their *very first black princess*, they could do better than have her be the servant to a white character, you know?

I think one aspect of it is... you know how sometimes you hear Jewish readers criticizing the YA literature they read as kids, because there weren't ANY young adult books about Jewish characters that weren't ALSO about the Holocaust? They couldn't find any books about kids like them just having crushes, or going to summer camp, or solving crimes, or fighting dragons, or everyday YA type stuff. It was ALWAYS "blaaaah it's so tragic and terrible to be Jewish and everyone dies." And sometimes you just want a story that reinforces that you can be what you are, and yet your whole life isn't *defined* by this one thing-- you can do things *besides* "escape from the Holocaust" or "learn from your Nana about the Holocaust". Not that those are terrible stories, but it's also good if you don't always have to have just the one type of story over and over, you know?

Yeah I've just been linked to some comments about Mulan and...now Pocahontas but it's kind of a shame since well I guess ignorance is bliss and I suppose not so ignorant anymore--I really think at the heart the matter with all the flaws Disney intentionally/unintentionally gives them the ending result of whether or not they're good people really is what concerns me the most, so yeah I agree.

Ahaha, well if I can make it past the bad acting I would attempt to, if only to feel somewhat young again, when I can find time for TV again I'll have to make a note to try then sometime...

The Princess and the Frog

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