I'm sorry, I'm fictionally cranky today.

[meganbmoore]

 Another thing that's been going around that's been making me extremely irritable (and most definitely carried over into the other posts of the day) is a lot of the talk about women in comic book movies.  Outside of Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Daredevil, all these superhero comic book movies the last few years are having heroines largely limited to non-action roles, mostly just the girlfriend or mother figure.  Uhm...so far, I've largely thought they were all pretty cool myself, but we aren't getting into that.  (Lets face it, X-Men and FF only had action girls because they're team movies, and DD because Elektra is his best known lover.  We pretend Catwoman does not exist.  Just like we pretend Halle Berry as Storm did not make the entire comic book fandom sob in sorrow.)  Then there's Doctor Horrible.  I haven't seen it yet, so I'm not commenting there.  It seems to be bringing a lot of this out, though.

But someone somewhere said that that's all any of the female characters in comic books were.  And someone else said that female characters never should have any role save the girl to get rescued or the mother.  And all comic book heroine suck anyway.

The women in this icon, and everyone remotely associated with them, would like to have words with that sentiment.  As would an amazingly long list of women connected to the heroes movies are being made of.  And an even longer list of other women in comic books.

No, I'm not linking.  I burned the threads from my head as best I could.  Much like the "Storm should be raped" essay I once read.

Here's the thing.  Pretty much all all these iconic heroes they've been making movies of have several action women-lovers, heroines, and enemies-linked to them.  Batman in particular is drowning in them.  But you know what?  The movie makers skip them.  It's basically all about the screen writing articles I linked to earlier.  Other character types in these movies would, very simply, have more to do in the plot and distract from the hero being heroic and saving the day.  Apparently, the rule is that girls in comic book movies only get to help do that if there are several boy heroes.

My point?  I'm not sure I really have one, beyond apparently being generally cranky regarding fiction today.  I get watching comic book movies and saying the female characters are mostly just love interests, because it's true.  That doesn't mean they suck.  But watching a few movies and knowing nothing about comics themselves or the characters beyond the iconic males Hollywood has been promoting, and assuming there are no heroines in the action sense, or female characters beyond assistants and girlfriends?  I might refrain from biting your head off if I like you.

Comic books = Megan's babies, even if The Big Two are annoying her too much for her to be reading a lot lately.

And Gwyneth Paltrow says comic books are only for boys.  What does that make me and about half the f-list that read comics?  She can join Halle Berry in the Comic Book Movie Hall of Ultimate Shame.

Also, I have been spoiled for a part of Dark Knight.  It does not influence my intentions of seeing the movie, but:

Barbara.  Freaking. Gordon.  Mess with her the way the spoilers threaten, and there may be blood.

Comments

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I would counter that with Liz Sherman from Hellboy 2, but that movie really is a teamy ensemble. And I'd like to refrain from spoiling people, yo

[advance.livejournal.com]

As I think we've both had this conversation I get so tired of people just running their mouths and not sitting down to even THINK about what they're saying.

All female's in comic books suck? Uh.. can I say a nice big 'screw you' because obviously they've never actually read the damn comics they're complaining about.

*rolls eyes* It's like when people try to say that Green Goblin is the ZOMG BIG BADGUY OF SPIDERMAN just because he was in two of the movies... I always look at them and go 'Uh..you're missing like.. 5 others just to let you know."

Hell I can name at least five other female heroines who can kick ass by themselves.

AND BARBARA?! I haven't seen the movie yet but I hope they don't fuck her up... ><"

[lotuseyes.livejournal.com]

look all I can think of is it can't be a worse incarnation then Alicia Silverstone in Batman and Robin. THEY MADE HER ALFRED'S NIECE. that alone made me want to rally against the movie. The fact she was blonde almost made me want to boycott it totally except Chris O'Donnell was a hot if too old and street-punk Robin. He should have been Jason Todd with some of his antics.

[kingcrankycat.livejournal.com]

I can't think of what Babs moment you might be referring to here? I can only think of some emotional trauma to her that would also have been applied equally to the rest of her family, so I don't count that...

Also worth noting that Angelina Jolie in "Wanted" was a total bad-ass -- far more than the main character of the movie (and intentionally so, at that)

[melengro.livejournal.com]

The Dark Knight has three Barbaras Gordon: Jim Gordon's wife, daughter, and niece are all named Barbara.

It's not clear which one, if any, will become Batgirl/Oracle.

[chomiji]

Heh, Gwyneth Paltrow ... just because she got the play the wielder of Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, all of the sudden, she's an expert!

And it's all such BS. Even if you stick to classical sources, women warriors kicking ass have a long history. These guys need to hear about Britomart/Bradamante (from The Faerie Queen and Orlando Furioso), for example. And then there are historical figures like the Trung Sisters of Vietnam. Methinks some boys are feeling one-upped by the women in their lives, so they're running off at the mouth.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

Nobody I talked to understood my ghastly, shuddering horror at Halle Berry's performance as Storm!

This is why I don't talk to strangers on teh internets, you know.

[irenak.livejournal.com]

I think this might be why, other problems in the film aside, Catwoman in Batman Returns actually worked so well - she wasn't there to be saved and she wasn't there to be defeated. She pretty much just wanted to do her own thing and it just kind of sucked that Batman happened to be in the way as her beef wasn't actually with him. It also makes her rejection of Bruce's offer at the end that much more significant - it's not that she doesn't like him, it's that she doesn't *need* him and it makes her presence in the film that much stronger.

Compare to Rachel Dawes in Batman Begins and you've got a pitch perfect example of what so often goes wrong with women in superhero movies - the role as written is thin on the ground to start out and then you've cast an actress who simple doesn't the sheer force of personality to pull it off, especially sharing the screen with people like Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman. It ends up making her a non-presence.

Though, hmm, come to think of it why *didn't* they go with Talia in that film instead of Ducard? Her presence would have made just as much sense and her function could have easily been the same. Though that leads into a whole other mess of arguments, namely why is it a woman can be the major arch nemesis of another woman but never of a man? And that seems to be true both in comics and their films. So, something else to muddle over.