meganbmoore: (Default)
meganbmoore ([personal profile] meganbmoore) wrote2008-11-07 05:36 pm

(no subject)

Apparently, Proposition 8 protesters were arrested (and then some) for protesting outside a Mormon church.  I can't watch videos at work (all the websites are blocked) but ther's one in the linked post, apparently.

[identity profile] cavechan.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 12:59 am (UTC)(link)
=_= why is this such a common occurrence it seems...

[identity profile] woodburner.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
Hmm. I think I need more information, I can't see well what was happening on that video. It seems difficult for me to imagine there isn't more to this story.

Otoh, if it is as simple as "dudes protest, get smacked down and arrested", I can't imagine wtf the police were thinking with all those cameras and witnesses around.

[identity profile] meganbmoore.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 01:54 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. I have...reservations about it, myself. Like, I know you can clear protests with the police ahead of time (a friend of mine actually is taking part in a planned protest today, and I "ran" to make make sure it wasn't his) but they may not have, and the post doesn't give an unbiased view.

[identity profile] southerndave.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 01:54 am (UTC)(link)
Hmmm... now, this could just set a precedent for action to be taken the next time the Phelpsites try one of their noxious little protests...

[identity profile] laura-holt-pi.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 09:02 am (UTC)(link)
Excellent point! I'd love to see that little lot dragged off by the police!

[identity profile] laura-holt-pi.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 07:54 am (UTC)(link)
I can understand them being arrested. If I were in a church and thugs like that appeared outside spouting bigotry against my religion, I'd hope the police would arrest them too. There were probably children in that church.

If they want to protest, they should protest in front of government buildings, not in front of churches. If they behave in a threatening way towards ordinary churchgoers, of course they will be arrested.

[identity profile] meganbmoore.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
I still haven't watched the video, so I don't know how they're behaving, but you can actually have peaceful protests legally approved, and I'm wondering if this is one of those that was "crashed" anyway.

[identity profile] meganbmoore.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 08:52 am (UTC)(link)
And now I have watched the video. With no audio, you can't tell if they were insulting their religion or making threats, or just protesting the act. There's no sign of violence before the police closed in, and the first sign of violence we see is from the police. However, we can't tell what sets the violence off, so we don't know if it was defense or police brutality.

If they were being peaceful and the protest had been approved, then the police likely violated a law. However, if there were threats being made and/or the protest hadn't been approved, then it's a different story.

[identity profile] laura-holt-pi.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 09:02 am (UTC)(link)
Either way, they were protesting outside a church with at least one sign saying "Shame on Mormons". That's religious bigotry and unacceptable. The church didn't make proposition 8. The men shown in the pictures don't look peaceful. They look dangerous. If they appeared outside a church I was in, I hope the police would take action.

If they really care about gay rights, they shouldn't behave like that. I support the right to a civil partnership (although I don't call it marriage, since marriage is specific on gender - a view also held by John Barrowman, who has a civil partnership himself). However, when I see behaviour like that, I lose all sympathy for their cause. Too many are just using it as an excuse to perpetrate acts of hatred and bigotry. Church-goers have rights too.

[identity profile] tyger-raven.livejournal.com 2008-11-08 09:44 am (UTC)(link)
I too was a little unclear about this protest because there's not enough evidence one way or another. Yes, there is a way to do a peaceful protest, one that's approved by the government and produces a minimal amount of chaos.

As for the actions taken against the Mormons, I'd be against this if it wasn't so widely known that the Mormons were instrumental in getting this proposition passed. They encouraged their members to dig into their savings and give to the Yes On 8 campaign. There's even some indications that the Mormon church itself gave significant amounts of money to the cause. In fact, I believe it's been reported that nearly 70% of all funds raised for Prop 8 came from Mormons. It's my belief that if they were going to get involved in this fight, then they've left themselves open for opposition. I don't advocate violence against them, but I don't see anything wrong with picketing their churches and carrying signs that say "Shame on Mormons".

Now, some people on the opposition side realize that not all Mormons are against us, which is why these protests need to be carried out with respect and in a peaceful manner. However, if the church to which that person belongs to chooses to attack others in such a hateful way, then it should be only fair that those that are being oppressed be free to express peacefully how they feel about being the source of such hatred.