The Princess and the Frog

[meganbmoore]

Ok, O Mighty F-List Who Knows All, the following is what I know about this upcoming Disney movie:

1.  It's an adaptation of The Frog Prince.
2.  It's Disney doing 2D animation
3.  It has a black heroine
4.  It's set in New Orleans, presumably at some point in the past.

Anyway, apparently there is some sort of huge controversy over it?  Can anyone fill me in?

Also, does anyone know when it's coming out?

Comments

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I haven't heard much of that, but I do know that when I was a youngish teen, I had no idea how overwhelmingly physically stereotyped Jafar was. By the time I learned,the love for the movie was deeply ingrained, but there was still serious "What Disney? Really?" over that.

About her being a servant...do you know when it's set? (I suspect I'm just automatically assuming it's not set in the present.) Because, while I hate to say it, there has to be some balance between what's politically correct, and the setting. Like, I think you can have something about a black servant girl in, say, the 1930s, and still be respectful. Mind you, that you CAN do something doesn't mean there's a great probability that you WILL...

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Like, I think you can have something about a black servant girl in, say, the 1930s, and still be respectful. Mind you, that you CAN do something doesn't mean there's a great probability that you WILL...

I think it's during the Jazz Age? So, 1920s, maybe?

And I think you definitely *could* do a good story about a black servant girl, and it's not even so much that it's not "respectful" to portray the black princess as a servant, because it really would be all in how you handled the story... (although I really do doubt they would handle it well. Like, either she's the "sassy, spunky Black Best Friend" type who is happy to be a servant, or the downtrodden, humble Cinderella type who is long-suffering and noble and good, and... I just don't know, really.) It just seems like, you know, for their *very first black princess*, they could do better than have her be the servant to a white character, you know?

I think one aspect of it is... you know how sometimes you hear Jewish readers criticizing the YA literature they read as kids, because there weren't ANY young adult books about Jewish characters that weren't ALSO about the Holocaust? They couldn't find any books about kids like them just having crushes, or going to summer camp, or solving crimes, or fighting dragons, or everyday YA type stuff. It was ALWAYS "blaaaah it's so tragic and terrible to be Jewish and everyone dies." And sometimes you just want a story that reinforces that you can be what you are, and yet your whole life isn't *defined* by this one thing-- you can do things *besides* "escape from the Holocaust" or "learn from your Nana about the Holocaust". Not that those are terrible stories, but it's also good if you don't always have to have just the one type of story over and over, you know?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think it says a lot that I noticed as a teen that EVERY SINGLE BOOK in my school library that had a jew involved the holocaust. Because that was before I even started noticing things like that in fiction at all. (I noticed whether or not girls were having adventures and getting to start because I was a girl and while I did like reading about boys on adventures, I liked reading about girls on adventures more. But i know I had better luck there than others looking for something "like them.") Though I wish I could remember that one that was an adaptation of Sleeping Beauty.

[smartycat.livejournal.com]

Though I wish I could remember that one that was an adaptation of Sleeping Beauty.

Jane Yolen's Briar Rose.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

I think one aspect of it is... you know how sometimes you hear Jewish readers criticizing the YA literature they read as kids, because there weren't ANY young adult books about Jewish characters that weren't ALSO about the Holocaust? They couldn't find any books about kids like them just having crushes, or going to summer camp, or solving crimes, or fighting dragons, or everyday YA type stuff. It was ALWAYS "blaaaah it's so tragic and terrible to be Jewish and everyone dies." And sometimes you just want a story that reinforces that you can be what you are, and yet your whole life isn't *defined* by this one thing-- you can do things *besides* "escape from the Holocaust" or "learn from your Nana about the Holocaust". Not that those are terrible stories, but it's also good if you don't always have to have just the one type of story over and over, you know?

Yes, THIS. Quoting it all because it bears repeating. It was the same sort of thing for me as a child, trying to find any stories about Indians that didn't either have us as the savage primitive bad guys, or else were utterly depressing Socially Relevant serious stories about genocide and racism and poverty and alcohol abuse. And giving the first black Disney princess a name and job that's yet another echo of all the serious, depressing stories about slavery and racism is more of the same. I'm reminded of stories I've heard from American Girl fans who were thrilled as little girls when the Addy doll first came out, only to be disappointed by the clothes and accessories that were available -- an older collector can appreciate that all of her stuff was beautifully made and authentic for the character of a fugitive slave making a new life for herself in a free state up north, but as little girls they just felt hurt and cheated that there was finally a doll that looked like them in the popular series so many other girls were collecting, but her stuff wasn't as pretty and fun to play with as the stuff that came with the white dolls.

It kind of makes me wonder if the folks at Disney, American Girl, etc. who come up with things like this are thinking less about the needs and wants of POC kids and more about their white audience -- because the POC kids don't need a doll or a princess movie to teach them all about the history of racism and prejudice, they're already learning about it from a million other sources -- books and movies, schoolwork, family stories, and day-to-day real life. So it's not like those lessons are going to go unlearned if girls get to have some happy sparkly romantic fairy tales with characters that look like them for a little bit of balance.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Not that those are terrible stories, but it's also good if you don't always have to have just the one type of story over and over, you know?

Yes, exactly!

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

About her being a servant...do you know when it's set? (I suspect I'm just automatically assuming it's not set in the present.) Because, while I hate to say it, there has to be some balance between what's politically correct, and the setting.

But the creators also get to choose when and where it's set. They could have set this in 12th century Nigeria, or Haiti in the 1990's or had an all-black cast if they chose, but they made a conscious decision to make her a servant in 1920/30's New Orleans. That's sketchy in and of itself. Not to mention that there were free, middle class black people in North America for hundreds of years, and in Europe for thousands. This isn't one heroine among a million others, this is the first and the only time Disney has ever done this - it's a pretty big deal.

I think you can have something about a black servant girl in, say, the 1930s, and still be respectful.

Possible, but not likely. It's like starting out with a handicap.

(Also, Nala is a lion. She doesn't count as a heroine of colour)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

What I meant with Nala is that I don't think anyone could ever "read" her as white (though there are people baffled as to why we can't see some cast members as white, so I could be wrong about that) but I think it ended up coming out very badly. I may also have a stronger tendency to read a lot of talking animal characters as some variety person representative than most people have.

[la-vie-noire.livejournal.com]

Because, while I hate to say it, there has to be some balance between what's politically correct, and the setting.

Uh, really? What is "politically correct"? Sorry, I just hate that term. Why you can have strong white women in settings in the past, and not having a non-stereotyped POC character because is so anachronistic in fantasy setting.

As shewhohashope said, Europe/US aren't the only places they could have settled a fairy tale about a black girl in the past.

Like, I think you can have something about a black servant girl in, say, the 1930s

Done by white people who think black people can only star mainstream shows set in the past as servants? I hate to say it, but I'm kinda skeptic.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I hate "politically correct" the same way I hate "strong female character," but will grudgingly use both because it's the term people understand.

The reason you're skeptical is why I say I think it's possible, but that I don't think it's probable.