the break from fandom, it is not going so well...

[meganbmoore]

Ok, seriously, how can women NOT be interested in women in fiction, or view them as irrelevant, or only there to complement the guys?  I mean, seriously, HOW???

I don't mean liking every female character ever, or always being more interested in the female, I just mean approaching fiction with the idea that the female is less important than the male.

It seems to me that it should be the reverse...but then again, I shouldn't be surprised, as so much of fandom revolves around the ideathat it's good or more interesting to take the role of the female and give it to a male instead(yes, if you slash a canonically, heterosexually paired character with another male, you ARE robbing the female of part of her role in the story and giving it to a male.  Period.)

No, I do not dislike you or not respect you or automatically think less of you if you aren't interested in female characters or slash canonically paired males(the f-list would be much smaller if I did.)  But I also can't remotely with your viewpoint when you're coming at something with either one.

(ok, I must ask:  is there something in the world's water supply the last few weeks?  I keep seeing more and more rants...not that I'm one to talk.) 

ETA: No, not directed at anyone specifically (I don't post rants directed to specific people if I know them) but on comments in various rants I've read the last week or so.

Comments

[anime-heart.livejournal.com]

I think some female readers/fans find men (as characters) more interesting than women. Which I think is a quirk but not a terrible one; what I don't like is when they try to generalize it to "women are boring" or "I can't stand narratives which focus on a heroine" or blahblahblah whatever.

Some of that is about personality and background. I used to like to read more about men because I found them very mysterious, and having lots of sisters and female friends, felt that I knew enough of women in rl. Also, the types of female characters I encountered in fiction weren't very satisfying.

Now I've known my husband a long time I know how simple men really are, lol (no no no, they are just as complicated as women)

I always used to be searching in fiction for someone I could identify with who wasn't tragic or too girly or was going to live a life of abstinence because men liked her but didn't love her or who was super smart but somehow adorable because of her lack of feminine wiles (for reference, I would describe myself as quite girly, very smart, and not particularly sweet or nice, but not a bitch either, and perfectly happy being married and a mom--none of which seemed possible in the books I was reading in hs and college).

so um, back from the self-centered detour--what was I saying? I think it's a mistake, when it's a personal preference, to generalize it to gender politics and therefore I find it super-annoying when people do. OTOH I am a believer in the idea that "the personal is politic" but tend to interpret as "it's a good idea to examine your personal values in the light of your political values and vice versa and keep the distinction clear" rather than "all of your personal values must be politically correct!"

As for rants, I love them, rant away. I would rant more except it's tiring and I need my sleep.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I used to like to read more about men because I found them very mysterious, and having lots of sisters and female friends, felt that I knew enough of women in rl. Also, the types of female characters I encountered in fiction weren't very satisfying.


Oh yes, exactly. That is basically why my interest is more in male characters than in female.

Lately, the second part seems less of a problem though (love the women on Battlestar or Farscape etc).

Funny thing is, I don't generally need (or even want) a character I can identify with at all. My favorite narratives/characters are never that. My favorite books are either Lymond Chronicles or Remarque's Three Comrades and I have no identification with any characters in them, male or female. My fave shows are BSG and Farscape and I really have no character who is 'like me' at all in it and don't identify with anyone. Even for my dramas, I don't really identify with most anyone in my fave dramas at all...

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I rarely have a character I can identify with myself. I don't think I've seen a single drama with a character I identify with, and if they show up in anime and manga, it's usually a supporting male character type in shounen stuff.

The identification thing, though, is something I see more and more as an explanation for slash: you identify with one male and find another hot, so you slash.

(It really doesn't make much sense to me, though...it would seem that you'd want the one you like the best and the one you think is hottest with girls, because that's what you are, and makes more sense if there's any "putting in the character's place/connection" thing going on. For that matter, if I do identify with a guy, it's almost never also the one I find hottest...but I generally want the hot guy to figure it out already and go make out with his love interest and wish the one I identify with had some nice girl of his own, as he almost never gets paired off...but now that reasoning-and the fact that it makes no sense to me, no matter how much I may like and respect some of the people who use it-is what I almost always think of now when identification comes up.)

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

It really doesn't make much sense to me, though...it would seem that you'd want the one you like the best and the one you think is hottest with girls, because that's what you are, and makes more sense if there's any "putting in the character's place/connection" thing going on.

If that hurts your head already, don't forget that there are an awful lot of female slash/yaoi fans who are bi or lesbian...

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

See, if that case, even though I know it probably isn't usually the case, I tell myself they just want the girls for themselves...and then the head doesn't hurt.

But, like I've said before, I think the whole thing just requires a mentality I don't have and can't connect with. Not saying good or bad there (I have severe issues with certain types of slash, but most of it was summarized in the main post), it's just that if it were ever going to make sense to me, it would by now.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

"I think some female readers/fans find men (as characters) more interesting than women. Which I think is a quirk but not a terrible one; what I don't like is when they try to generalize it to "women are boring" or "I can't stand narratives which focus on a heroine" or blahblahblah whatever."

The problem that I see is that most take "I find male characters more interesting" as being synonymous with "women are uninteresting" and "female narratives are boring" and then approach fiction only looking at the male, with the female as an accessory.