meganbmoore | the break from fandom, it is not going so well...

the break from fandom, it is not going so well...

Ok, seriously, how can women NOT be interested in women in fiction, or view them as irrelevant, or only there to complement the guys? I mean, seriously, HOW???

I don't mean liking every female character ever, or always being more interested in the female, I just mean approaching fiction with the idea that the female is less important than the male.

It seems to me that it should be the reverse...but then again, I shouldn't be surprised, as so much of fandom revolves around the ideathat it's good or more interesting to take the role of the female and give it to a male instead(yes, if you slash a canonically, heterosexually paired character with another male, you ARE robbing the female of part of her role in the story and giving it to a male. Period.)

No, I do not dislike you or not respect you or automatically think less of you if you aren't interested in female characters or slash canonically paired males(the f-list would be much smaller if I did.) But I also can't remotely with your viewpoint when you're coming at something with either one.

(ok, I must ask: is there something in the world's water supply the last few weeks? I keep seeing more and more rants...not that I'm one to talk.)

ETA: No, not directed at anyone specifically (I don't post rants directed to specific people if I know them) but on comments in various rants I've read the last week or so.

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So glad I'm not alone in feeling that way.

While I'm not adverse to a good hero/or even a good anti-hero, I think a lot of the ways I approach fandom/fannish pursuits directly stem from the way I was brought up - in an all female, single parent household. It's my world, it's what I knew - strong, sometimes terrifying women authority figures and being able to do things without the presence/necessity for a man. Of course there's fandom as escapism from real life and being able to tell the difference/compartmentalize kinks/what works for us in fiction doesn't have to correlate to what works for us in reality, but I've always liked my fantasy mixed with reality and I've always liked nice boys over damaged woobies, to use a tired example. But there's always exceptions.

Is this directed at me? *watches own big ego*

I am not uninterested in women in fiction, and prefer a story to have a strong female heroine, but I don't find it necessary. Maybe because I grew up reading such strongly male centric narratives (I only read translated classics, and literature written before 1920, really, when I was a kid. USSR wasn't big on pop lit.) I hate to have a stupid heroine who just is useless and trips over her feet, but if a woman is a secondary character, I don't mind. If a man is a secondary character? Depends but I am less likely to be interested.

Oh, god, I don't know. I get so, so tired of the hatred of women from women that I find in fandom.

And *waves hand* I am the opposite. There were years when I wouldn't even try a book if it didn't has a girl/woman in it as at least a secondary lead.

I feel guilty that I like Sokka more than Katara, putting her in third in the 'favorite Avatar character' test. (But if people keep bitching about her, that will change.) (Actually, I don't even think that accurate, because I look at all the times I Katara does things I love, and if I did a point by point comparison, I think the scene in my icon, if nothing else, would nudge her ahead.)

In short: WORD. Wordy McWord.

I like both male and female characters, but I can relate more with female characters, so I tend to like them a little better. One thing I can NOT stand is weak wimpy fainty female characters. Give me a female character who can take care of herself and whip any guy in a sword fight and I'm happy.

I think the 'I hate reading about ladies' attitude is a product of a general pop culture that sees all things female as less worthy. So, we grow up thinking that women's problems are trivial or boring or not as worthwhile to read about then male buddy bonding on the battlefield.

I hate watching or reading things without a strong female character as lead or secondary lead. Otherwise, I have no character to identify with or provide me with a point of entry into the story. Strangely, I guess, I hate harem manga, but I love reverse harem manga, even though the ratio of male to female characters is opposite of what I would expect that I would like.

I think some female readers/fans find men (as characters) more interesting than women. Which I think is a quirk but not a terrible one; what I don't like is when they try to generalize it to "women are boring" or "I can't stand narratives which focus on a heroine" or blahblahblah whatever.

Some of that is about personality and background. I used to like to read more about men because I found them very mysterious, and having lots of sisters and female friends, felt that I knew enough of women in rl. Also, the types of female characters I encountered in fiction weren't very satisfying.

Now I've known my husband a long time I know how simple men really are, lol (no no no, they are just as complicated as women)

I always used to be searching in fiction for someone I could identify with who wasn't tragic or too girly or was going to live a life of abstinence because men liked her but didn't love her or who was super smart but somehow adorable because of her lack of feminine wiles (for reference, I would describe myself as quite girly, very smart, and not particularly sweet or nice, but not a bitch either, and perfectly happy being married and a mom--none of which seemed possible in the books I was reading in hs and college).

so um, back from the self-centered detour--what was I saying? I think it's a mistake, when it's a personal preference, to generalize it to gender politics and therefore I find it super-annoying when people do. OTOH I am a believer in the idea that "the personal is politic" but tend to interpret as "it's a good idea to examine your personal values in the light of your political values and vice versa and keep the distinction clear" rather than "all of your personal values must be politically correct!"

As for rants, I love them, rant away. I would rant more except it's tiring and I need my sleep.

I'll admit, the ratio of male to female characters doesn't really affect how much a story appeals to me - I never really had trouble relating to a male or female protagonist, so it became primarily about character types and relationships, rather than gender specifically.

However, that said, I definitely see where you're coming from: it's been very frustrating to see how hostile fandom can be toward female characters sometimes, even when their presence is minor (y halo thar, Supernatural). I suspect there is a bit of immaturity involved in it, just judging how I reacted to certain characters when I was fifteen or sixteen and how I react now. And part of it is probably, as you say, a sort of social indoctrination to view female characters as somehow less interesting than their male counterparts.

That said, some fault lies with the writers as well - some, especially in heavier male fandoms, don't always have a decent grasp on how to write women and, as a result, tend to alienate viewers from those characters. If you've read Henry Jenkins at all, he goes into that quite a bit, exploring the phenomenon of slash specifically and fanfic more generally when women appeared - in earlier media fandoms, at least - to gravitate more toward male characters rather than female ones and it was in part due to how poorly the latter were written.

Word to the nth degree.

I hate it when the female character is treated like an expandable entity, be it in fandom (where, it would seem, it is everyone's fantasy to kill off the main girl and have her replaced by an OC/Sue/random male character) or in the original work itself (oh, how many times have I rolled my eyes at an author's laughable disregard for their own female character... even more laughable as said authors often happen to be female themselves).

Let it be said that I'm not more partial to female characters than I am to male characters. However, there seems to be a trend that consists in idolizing everything that sports a penis and deeming every heroine a waste of space and it is sorta grating.

I've had an issue with this side of fandom since I pretty much got into my first fandom six years ago. It's something I really don't like and what makes it really shocking is the fact that most of the hate towards female characters comes from female fans.

On most days, I ignore it but on other days I get really pissed off, most of all if the character that is being bitched on happens to be someone I like.

I also have an issue with peoples needs to have an OTP almost from the get go of watching a tv show or anime. I'm not an OTP person, in most cases I happen to be a Gen person, who enjoys watching friendships more than people falling in love, I get bored with that, unless it's very well done. It's tiring how childish fandom can be, that's why I just lurk most of the time.

On another note, I've friended you, which I'm sure you noticed. :) I really enjoyed some of the posts you've been making.

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I concur.

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