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Mahabharata
May. 7th, 2009 02:01 amCan one spoil an epic? (Well, yes, you can, as I don't want spoilers!)
I am now on ep 4 of 90 or so, with the consequence (possibly the first of many?) of Bhishma's TERRIBLE OATH!
( hee! )May. 7th, 2009
Can one spoil an epic? (Well, yes, you can, as I don't want spoilers!)
I am now on ep 4 of 90 or so, with the consequence (possibly the first of many?) of Bhishma's TERRIBLE OATH!
( hee! )(no subject)
May. 7th, 2009 10:55 amA question asked regarding Marvel Divas at Joe Quesada's Cup O' Joe:
Ashley asks:
About the "hating" on Marvel Divas, let's call it what it really is—criticizing how sexist this book appears to be. If Marvel produces comics that are offensive to female readers, why shouldn't people "hate" on it? Why would I want to support a company that produces offensive, sexist material? Why shouldn’t everyone speak out against it? While the book hasn't come out yet, what has been released so far is blatantly sexist. But what troubles me the most is that Marvel thinks people want to read this, and this constitutes strong female characterization. Does Marvel actually want to attract female readers or is the whole point that Marvel Comics are only for guys?
Part of Quesada's reponse:
I’m going to go on a limb here and assume you’re a Marvel reader. It’s an assumption I’m making based upon the fact that you’re responding to this column. If you’re Marvel reader and truly feel we’re sexist, then why are you reading our books? Now, perhaps you’re not a Marvel reader, then if that’s the case, I’m not quite sure what you’re criticizing if you don’t read our books?
The response as a whole is essentially a condescending (But then, when is Quesada not?) "Woes! How dare you overreact and persecute me by forming an opinion and making a judgment based on the information available to you, which is all the information that's been released! Such an overreaction!"
As usual with these things, it's best not to read the comments. No, wait, this is a jewel:
man, seriously. hasn't marvel portrayed enough strong, sexy females to prove that they aren't sexist? this is one of the few places we can actually see women portrayed on equal ground as men instead of being the typical whatever. yeah, the cover is sexy, but what's wrong with that? personally, i really like the sleek look of the characters. the word that comes to mind is 'catalyst.' they really look like they're about to explode into action!..
They look like something's going to explode, that's for sure.
And, seriously, Quesada is why nothing DC ever does has a chance of annoying me as much as Marvel. I mean, DC created Amazons Attack, my most hated comic books event EVER. I mean, I hate it because its the only major comic book event I know of that actually CENTERED around the female characters, and it ended up an ode to the glory of patriarchy and a diatribe against powerful women, and it was supposed to be Wonder Woman's story but it ended up being all about how Superman is the supreme moral high ground who can justly lecture anyone and Batman knows better thn anyone else, including more about Themiscyra and the Amazons than Diana!
But you know, his comments remind me of a discussion I saw a while back about Naruto. It was prompted by a fan of the series outlining (IIRC) why she loved the series, but also why she had problems with it when it came to gender. And a commenter basically said that it was shounen and written for boys, so you should expect it to be sexist, and have no business complaining about sexism there.*
And no, it doesn't work that way. "If you like this genre, you don't get to complain about sexism/racism/homophobia/whatever-bothers-you-but-not-me because it's there because the genre exist for men** and you're just an intruder now stop harshing my squee you whiner." I like genre fiction. I like mysteries. I like historical dramas. I like superhero comics. I like manga: shounen, shoujo, and seinen (I haven't read enough josei to know if i like it). I like romance. A lot of the women who read this LJ like some or even most of the same. Most of those are considered the territory of men. And most come with sexism built in. But there's a difference between liking something despite knowing that it comes with problems that will bother you, and saying that you can't complain because of the genre/medium, or because you consume the fiction being criticized. All fiction can be legitimately criticized by its consumers***. Genre and/or medium don't make it exempt.
*And, seriously, don't you love how the reverse never applies? No one picks up fiction written for women expecting the men to be treated as second rate, now do they?
**Not that I have issues with men or fiction for men, it's just the idea that NO ONE ELSE is considered of worth in marketing or execution, and that, since you aren't one and so it isn't meant for you, you have no business having any problems with it.
***ETA: By which I mean (in context of genre) a person who has given it more than a cursory glance based on stereotypes and/or the most famous examples (For example, you cannot judge the superhero genre based on the Spiderman and X-Men and Batman movies, and you cannot base the fantasy genre on Tolkein, Rowling and Goodkind, because neither set is representative of the whole.) or (in context of an individual property) a person who has looked at all the information available on a subject (as Ashley, presumably a regular consumer of comic books, as she submitted the question to a forum for fans of comic books, has done with Marvel Divas) and drawn a conclusion from it.
Ashley asks:
About the "hating" on Marvel Divas, let's call it what it really is—criticizing how sexist this book appears to be. If Marvel produces comics that are offensive to female readers, why shouldn't people "hate" on it? Why would I want to support a company that produces offensive, sexist material? Why shouldn’t everyone speak out against it? While the book hasn't come out yet, what has been released so far is blatantly sexist. But what troubles me the most is that Marvel thinks people want to read this, and this constitutes strong female characterization. Does Marvel actually want to attract female readers or is the whole point that Marvel Comics are only for guys?
Part of Quesada's reponse:
I’m going to go on a limb here and assume you’re a Marvel reader. It’s an assumption I’m making based upon the fact that you’re responding to this column. If you’re Marvel reader and truly feel we’re sexist, then why are you reading our books? Now, perhaps you’re not a Marvel reader, then if that’s the case, I’m not quite sure what you’re criticizing if you don’t read our books?
The response as a whole is essentially a condescending (But then, when is Quesada not?) "Woes! How dare you overreact and persecute me by forming an opinion and making a judgment based on the information available to you, which is all the information that's been released! Such an overreaction!"
As usual with these things, it's best not to read the comments. No, wait, this is a jewel:
man, seriously. hasn't marvel portrayed enough strong, sexy females to prove that they aren't sexist? this is one of the few places we can actually see women portrayed on equal ground as men instead of being the typical whatever. yeah, the cover is sexy, but what's wrong with that? personally, i really like the sleek look of the characters. the word that comes to mind is 'catalyst.' they really look like they're about to explode into action!..
They look like something's going to explode, that's for sure.
And, seriously, Quesada is why nothing DC ever does has a chance of annoying me as much as Marvel. I mean, DC created Amazons Attack, my most hated comic books event EVER. I mean, I hate it because its the only major comic book event I know of that actually CENTERED around the female characters, and it ended up an ode to the glory of patriarchy and a diatribe against powerful women, and it was supposed to be Wonder Woman's story but it ended up being all about how Superman is the supreme moral high ground who can justly lecture anyone and Batman knows better thn anyone else, including more about Themiscyra and the Amazons than Diana!
But you know, his comments remind me of a discussion I saw a while back about Naruto. It was prompted by a fan of the series outlining (IIRC) why she loved the series, but also why she had problems with it when it came to gender. And a commenter basically said that it was shounen and written for boys, so you should expect it to be sexist, and have no business complaining about sexism there.*
And no, it doesn't work that way. "If you like this genre, you don't get to complain about sexism/racism/homophobia/whatever-bothers-you-but-not-me because it's there because the genre exist for men** and you're just an intruder now stop harshing my squee you whiner." I like genre fiction. I like mysteries. I like historical dramas. I like superhero comics. I like manga: shounen, shoujo, and seinen (I haven't read enough josei to know if i like it). I like romance. A lot of the women who read this LJ like some or even most of the same. Most of those are considered the territory of men. And most come with sexism built in. But there's a difference between liking something despite knowing that it comes with problems that will bother you, and saying that you can't complain because of the genre/medium, or because you consume the fiction being criticized. All fiction can be legitimately criticized by its consumers***. Genre and/or medium don't make it exempt.
*And, seriously, don't you love how the reverse never applies? No one picks up fiction written for women expecting the men to be treated as second rate, now do they?
**Not that I have issues with men or fiction for men, it's just the idea that NO ONE ELSE is considered of worth in marketing or execution, and that, since you aren't one and so it isn't meant for you, you have no business having any problems with it.
***ETA: By which I mean (in context of genre) a person who has given it more than a cursory glance based on stereotypes and/or the most famous examples (For example, you cannot judge the superhero genre based on the Spiderman and X-Men and Batman movies, and you cannot base the fantasy genre on Tolkein, Rowling and Goodkind, because neither set is representative of the whole.) or (in context of an individual property) a person who has looked at all the information available on a subject (as Ashley, presumably a regular consumer of comic books, as she submitted the question to a forum for fans of comic books, has done with Marvel Divas) and drawn a conclusion from it.
