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meganbmooreYou know, I thought I'd be happy when Revolution fandom quit apparently hunting for reasons to hate on Charlie, but now that that's let up, they've moved on to the POC (especially Nora, what a shock), which isn't exactly an improvement.
I kind of laugh at the idea that Monroe has more presence and charisma than Neville. Don't get me wrong, David Lyons is a good actor and decently charismatic, but Giancarlo Esposito has more presence, charisma and menace in his pinky than David Lyons has in his whole body. (For my money, Neville as a character and the potential Neville rebellion is also vastly more interesting than anything Monroe has going for him, but Monroe is pretty much tailormade to be a fandom woobie if you can overlook that bit where in almost every episode, he's killed someone, had someone killed, threatened to have a person's kid killed, tortured someone, or threatened to have someone's kid tortured.)
Then there's Jason. I'm partial to JD Pardo thanks to the shortlived Drive series, but Jason himself is definitely underdeveloped. That said, the boy is an angsty, conflicted, duty-bound soldier with feeeeeelings for Our Heroine and conflict over his sides methods and choices, but held in check partly because his father is part of the ruling regime. Add that to "my father got your father killed and abducted your brother" and you can't convince me fandom wouldn't be eating him up with a spoon if he were a cute white boy, instead of brown. There's also the whole "Jason is a stalker and a liar" thing, which...well, what? If you want to be technical, true. He's followed Charlie because he was under orders to, he lied to her about his name (first directly, later by admitting that he had lied, but refusing to give his real name) but again, part of his orders at first, and later because it wouldn't have gone over so well for him to go "Hey Miles, my name is actually Jason. You probably recognize that as the name of Tom Neville's son. You know, the guy who killed your brother and abducted your nephew. WOULDN'T I MAKE A SWELL HOSTAGE? (Except not really, because my father's pretty much the king of tough love)" Other than that, the only lying has been lying by omission by telling Monroe as little about Charlie as he could get away with, and i think we can all approve of that. But he's also been very consistently nice to and respectful of Charlie (and protective) as much as he could be without actually committing treason, and i'm sorry fandom, but I've seen you swoon over pretty white boys (in this show at that) for even less reason. I mean, he's nowhere near my favorite character and I'm not quite willing to jump on the Charlie/Jason train, but I think both he and the pairing have potential.
And then there's Nora. If you've read the post in the main LJ comm about episode 12's solicit, you've probably seen all the comments about how people are disappointed that it sounds like Danny will die instead of Nora, many of which pretty much come across as "I'm so disappointed the woman of color will live and the white boy will die!" IMO. (Mind you, I'd rather Danny live than die. Take Aaron. He's annoying, a bit on the sanctimonious side, and doesn't add anything that other characters don't do better.)
According to fandom, Nora exists only as a love interest, is only there because she wants Miles, and has no purpose. Which, Unlike the Neville guys, is a big "are we watching the shame show?" for me.
I don't think we can forget that it's MILES who sought out Nora. Nora was off doing stuff and fighting Monroe while Miles was trying to drink himself to death, and since Miles was pretty much still half-suicidal at that point, I tend to read his seeking out Nora as his seeking a caretaker for Charlie if he died. That is, he hunted down his ex for help, and he was specifically entrusting her with his family. To my recollection, Nora has never actually brought up their past without prompting, and the only thing she's done is kiss him goodbye when she was about to leave with her sister. Given that she was going on a trip that she might not survive, or return from if she did, and he was continuing on what amounted to a suicide mission, I don't really read a goodbye kiss as a declaration of unending love. On the other hand, Miles brings up their past, and I feel a lot of their conversations pretty much boil down to this:
NORA: You're a jerk.
MILES: I know I messed up back then but-
NORA: WOULD YOU GET OVER THAT ALREADY I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU SHOULD BE NICER TO CHARLIE. Sheesh.
If you want to say that Nora is only around for her relationship with a character, then say it's for Charlie, not Miles. Nora has been very explicit that she's here for CHARLIE that she made a promise to Charlie and she's going to keep it. When she hesitated to leave with Mia, it wasn't because of Miles, it was because she made Charlie a promise. She didn't have a heartfelt conversation with Miles about whether or not she should leave, she had it with Charlie, and when she decided to try to stop the train from exploding, it was because she promised Charlie that she'd save Danny. She doesn't identify Danny as "Miles's niece" but as "Charlie's brother." And while I haven't exactly sat down and counted seconds, I'm pretty sure she's had as many or more scenes with Charlie as with Miles. (I mean, does the show want us to ship Miles and Nora? So far, yes, but I think it's emphasized Nora bond with Charlie a lot more than it has her past relationship with Miles.
(Personally, 'I'm of the opinion that the show somehow mostly attracted a certain part of fandom, and that part isn't used to multiple women doing stuff, multiple POC, or multiple biracial pairings. But I might just be being a bit mean and judgmental.)
I kind of laugh at the idea that Monroe has more presence and charisma than Neville. Don't get me wrong, David Lyons is a good actor and decently charismatic, but Giancarlo Esposito has more presence, charisma and menace in his pinky than David Lyons has in his whole body. (For my money, Neville as a character and the potential Neville rebellion is also vastly more interesting than anything Monroe has going for him, but Monroe is pretty much tailormade to be a fandom woobie if you can overlook that bit where in almost every episode, he's killed someone, had someone killed, threatened to have a person's kid killed, tortured someone, or threatened to have someone's kid tortured.)
Then there's Jason. I'm partial to JD Pardo thanks to the shortlived Drive series, but Jason himself is definitely underdeveloped. That said, the boy is an angsty, conflicted, duty-bound soldier with feeeeeelings for Our Heroine and conflict over his sides methods and choices, but held in check partly because his father is part of the ruling regime. Add that to "my father got your father killed and abducted your brother" and you can't convince me fandom wouldn't be eating him up with a spoon if he were a cute white boy, instead of brown. There's also the whole "Jason is a stalker and a liar" thing, which...well, what? If you want to be technical, true. He's followed Charlie because he was under orders to, he lied to her about his name (first directly, later by admitting that he had lied, but refusing to give his real name) but again, part of his orders at first, and later because it wouldn't have gone over so well for him to go "Hey Miles, my name is actually Jason. You probably recognize that as the name of Tom Neville's son. You know, the guy who killed your brother and abducted your nephew. WOULDN'T I MAKE A SWELL HOSTAGE? (Except not really, because my father's pretty much the king of tough love)" Other than that, the only lying has been lying by omission by telling Monroe as little about Charlie as he could get away with, and i think we can all approve of that. But he's also been very consistently nice to and respectful of Charlie (and protective) as much as he could be without actually committing treason, and i'm sorry fandom, but I've seen you swoon over pretty white boys (in this show at that) for even less reason. I mean, he's nowhere near my favorite character and I'm not quite willing to jump on the Charlie/Jason train, but I think both he and the pairing have potential.
And then there's Nora. If you've read the post in the main LJ comm about episode 12's solicit, you've probably seen all the comments about how people are disappointed that it sounds like Danny will die instead of Nora, many of which pretty much come across as "I'm so disappointed the woman of color will live and the white boy will die!" IMO. (Mind you, I'd rather Danny live than die. Take Aaron. He's annoying, a bit on the sanctimonious side, and doesn't add anything that other characters don't do better.)
According to fandom, Nora exists only as a love interest, is only there because she wants Miles, and has no purpose. Which, Unlike the Neville guys, is a big "are we watching the shame show?" for me.
I don't think we can forget that it's MILES who sought out Nora. Nora was off doing stuff and fighting Monroe while Miles was trying to drink himself to death, and since Miles was pretty much still half-suicidal at that point, I tend to read his seeking out Nora as his seeking a caretaker for Charlie if he died. That is, he hunted down his ex for help, and he was specifically entrusting her with his family. To my recollection, Nora has never actually brought up their past without prompting, and the only thing she's done is kiss him goodbye when she was about to leave with her sister. Given that she was going on a trip that she might not survive, or return from if she did, and he was continuing on what amounted to a suicide mission, I don't really read a goodbye kiss as a declaration of unending love. On the other hand, Miles brings up their past, and I feel a lot of their conversations pretty much boil down to this:
NORA: You're a jerk.
MILES: I know I messed up back then but-
NORA: WOULD YOU GET OVER THAT ALREADY I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU SHOULD BE NICER TO CHARLIE. Sheesh.
If you want to say that Nora is only around for her relationship with a character, then say it's for Charlie, not Miles. Nora has been very explicit that she's here for CHARLIE that she made a promise to Charlie and she's going to keep it. When she hesitated to leave with Mia, it wasn't because of Miles, it was because she made Charlie a promise. She didn't have a heartfelt conversation with Miles about whether or not she should leave, she had it with Charlie, and when she decided to try to stop the train from exploding, it was because she promised Charlie that she'd save Danny. She doesn't identify Danny as "Miles's niece" but as "Charlie's brother." And while I haven't exactly sat down and counted seconds, I'm pretty sure she's had as many or more scenes with Charlie as with Miles. (I mean, does the show want us to ship Miles and Nora? So far, yes, but I think it's emphasized Nora bond with Charlie a lot more than it has her past relationship with Miles.
(Personally, 'I'm of the opinion that the show somehow mostly attracted a certain part of fandom, and that part isn't used to multiple women doing stuff, multiple POC, or multiple biracial pairings. But I might just be being a bit mean and judgmental.)
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Date: 2013-03-19 11:35 pm (UTC)I'm not a big fan of Jason, but learning fandom's reaction to him might explain why there are more Miles/Charlie shippers than Charlie/Jason shippers. (At least that's what I've learned from looking for fic on A03.)
And I definitely don't see Nora as a love interest. I realize the show probably will get them back together but, at the moment, I think she's too good for Miles.
Since this show is made by the producer of Supernatural, a show about two white guys, I can see how it could have attracted people "uncomfortable" with female leads and POC. /bitter
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Date: 2013-03-19 11:55 pm (UTC)I'm neutral on Jason. He's the least developed of our main characters and hasn't exactly done much to endear himself except try to warn Charlie about Strausser, but I do find him sympathetic, and am willing to attribute the lack of development to the fact that the plot needed him to remain rather stagnant since moving him past where he is right now is going to alter things. So, like I said, potential, but it could go either way.
I flipflop between Nora and Charlie as my favorite. I'm theoretically ok with the inevitable rehookup of Nora/Miles, but want to know what he did to her that made them breakup, and REALLY hope it isn't the "cheated on her with Rachel" that most seem to think it is.
The fact that there are so many women and POC Doing Stuff and having goals startles me every time I remember that Kripke is one of the creators. (I'm not a big fan of Abrams, either, but he does at least have a history of giving women prominent roles in things like Lost and Fringe, even if I still have problems with what he does with them.)
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Date: 2013-03-20 01:01 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2013-03-20 12:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-20 01:06 am (UTC)*Because, seriously, he is. An evil dictator who used to be a decent person before some combination of sucky life and a lot of power warped him, but currently a straight up evil dictator.
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Date: 2013-03-20 01:51 am (UTC)Charlie has a traditionally masculine narrative trajectory and weapons and Danny has a traditionally feminine narrative trajectory and weapons and fandom just went 'hey, no thinking required here, let's go all out and hate them both!' Though I suspect reaction to Charlie might vary slightly if Miles wasn't one of the fandom's huge woobified and romanticized babies, whom she has the nerve to call to task or anger/inconvenience.
I just want Julia to murder Monroe and have sex with her husband on the General's desk, idek.
Like, I know how Jeremy got to be such a fan favourite but I don't know how Jeremy got to be such a fan favourite. If you know what I mean. I enjoy him much more in canon than Aaron (I enjoy Nameless Greasy Bounty Hunter #2534 much more than I do Aaron so not a high bar) because the show knows exactly what it's doing with him, but really.