Robin Hood x3

[meganbmoore]

So, I got home Saturday and saw that  the mailman had tried to deliver my Robin of Sherwood DVDs but, of course, since they couldn't fit in the mailbox, they spent the weekend atthe post office.  It made me sad because I've been waiting for those DVDs, so I pulled out a couple of my OTHER Robin Hood DVDS(me, a fan of romantic angstridden outlaw legends involving copious amounts of swords and bows and arrows and damsels in distress and dashing heroes?  Whyever would you think that?)

First up was the much(and usually rightly) maligned Kevin Costner vehicle Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.  The casting of Robin(and, as a sad result  for age compatibility for them to be childhood friends, Marian, even though I think she did a good job-but the idea of a close blood relative of the king's being Maid Marian in her thirties is more absurd than there are words for, because she would have been married of about half her life earlier) is laughable, and in their "research" they almost named Morgan Freeman's character Nasir because they didn't realize the character originated in Robin of Sherwood.  On the other hand, they made a real attempt to go back to the earlier versions before Errol Flynn and the cartoon where Robin and his men aren't all chipper and charming and...well..."merry" as we mean it today, and to incorporate older traditions of the story.  Of course, the vast majority of what REALLY works in it(aside from the high production values...I give it props for, Robin's accent and his and Marian's ages being flat out wrong for this stage of the story aside, having a "real" feel if you're simply watching it) is Christian Slater as Will Scarlett.  Now, why Marian chose the dry and "look at me, I'm charming and the lead" Robin over the more dashing, intense, and angst-ridden Will is beyond me, but this is one of only two versions of Will Scarlett I know of where Will reminds us why he's called "Scarlett."  It's also, as far as I know, the only version that incorporates the idea of Will being a relative of Robin's(usually a younger cousin) and I think it and it remembers that Prince John's involvement was a more recent addition to the Robin Hood legend.  So, yeah, most of what works is borrowed from Robin of Sherwood, but it has enough  qualities worth defending.  And I bought the extended edition a while back, which I guess means something.

Robin Hood: Men in Tights is the Cary Elwes and Mel Brooks Robin Hood parody.  If you don't love Robin Hood, Mel Brooks or Cary Elwes, you'll hate it, but if you like any of the above, you'll probably love it.  Its targets, of course, are Errol Flynn's The Adventures of Robin Hood(the most famous version) and Prince of Thieves(the then most recent version) but it has nods to others, and even to Princess Bride(most notably when Marian leaps off the balcony and onto the horse wearing a fluttering white gown)  It's very, very much a not-so-guilty pleasure.

And then FINALLY I went to get my Robin of Sherwood DVDs from the PO this morning and watched the 2 part opener.  I have this odd fondness for 80s fantasy and historical productions, I think because they had fewer tech options and didn't have endless special effects to fall back on.  I do love this series, free of the flash and camp where Robin is a woodsman and Marian, while high born, isn't the king's ward or close cousin and it's not about all saving England by collecting Richard's ransom but is instead about survival and simply doing what's right and what needs to be done, and if you manage to get revenge in the end, then all the better.  And, again, aside from POT, it's aboutthe only place you can find the REAL Will Scarlett...here, as a man whose wife was raped by soldiers and then trampled to death by their horses after, and Will was arrested for killing three of them after.  "Will Scarlett" isn't the name he was born with..."Scarlett" is the name he chose for himself after that.  There's one scene where Robin and Little John are fighting because Robin is about to go rescue Marian and John thinks he's being stupid and Will gets in between them.  The last line in the argument is John saying something to the effect that Robin is stupid for letting something as unimportant as a woman cloud his judgement, and then they see who's between them and they just stop.  And, as soon as he sees that they're through, Will turns around and even though you can't see his face, you can see that he has to compose himself(and likely keep himself from killing John right then and there) and it's a long time before he's able to turn back around.

Also, mostly to remind myself to check it out, crumpeteerposted this link to her LJ: A Will Scarlet Comprendium.

Comments

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

When Robin of Sherwood came out in the early 80's I even skipped my last lesson at school on Wednesdays and my best friend and I rushed home to watch it and my favourite character was Will. Every body else was raving about Michael Praed as Robin but for me it was only and always Ray Winstone. He gave Will Scarlet back his tragic past and his dignity.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I love this Robin and he's lovely to look at, but when it comes to this show, I'm all about Will. He's the one you have to really pay attention to because, aside from his anger, he just represses it all and you can feel that you're half a step away from blooddeathcarnage.

Sadly, aside from Ray and Christian Slater, Will has always been little more than a dandy Alan A Dale.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah ... though Alan A Dale in RoS was sort of cute with his *Bury me in the green woods* line :)
Gosh, I haven't watched that series in years and yet it feels as if it was yesterday that I have seen it.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

There are now lovely and shiny DVDs at(for BBC) a pretty decent price. Hence my FINALLY getting to see all of it, as opposed to just "Robin and the Sorcerer" and a couple other eps.

But...Ray and Christian's Will isn't going to be lounging on a rock or against a tree, laughing and singing and telling jokes and cheering...he's going to be either offing the guys in back or the ones who try to sneak up on Robin while Robin's doing his hero bit. And frankly, that's the kind I tend to go for, much as I like my dashing heroes.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Yeah I have the DVDs, I ordered them the moment they came out, in fact I pre-ordered them *rolls eyes*. S much for youthful obsessions :)

Yep, Will was the guy who did the deeds while Robin poses ;)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize they were coming until I saw them at Hastings. Thn I ordered them at the best price I could find them.

Well...Robin did deeds too, he just likes to add a bit of dash to the deeds...Will doesn't waste his time on such things. Sooner he kills, sooner he can get back to brooding.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Yep, Will is very efficient and ruthless.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Now, why Marian chose the dry and "look at me, I'm charming and the lead" Robin over the more dashing, intense, and angst-ridden Will is beyond me

Probably because she was about 10 years older than him.

The age problem is one of the most glaring ones in POT. Marian would have been married and probably had about 10 kids by the time she was that age in that society. Independent aside, that's just the way it would have been. Also, she would have had a TON more servants, being related to the king, than they gave her.

I had often wondered why they decided to give Robin a Muslim sidekick in POT and it wasn't until I've been watching ROS that I put it together, though I thought it was more of a homage than mistake. If that's how their "research" was done, I now understand why Will ended up being the angsty version rather than the gaily decorated version.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Pft. High born women got married to younger men all the time...course, they also were widows with a few kids tagging along, as opposed to impossible maids.

Ever since Errol Flynn(which I can ignore all inaccuracies in because a) more limited resources and b) it's presented more as a fairy tale than anything else) and the cartoon, Marian has been portrayed as being Richard's cousin or a very important ward, meaning she's VERY highborn and would have been married off at 15 or so at the latast, no matter how much he treasured her, to assure alliances, ESPECIALLY during a war.

See, if they'd made Marian be a widow, even with a husband who had left for war immediately after marriage and died, it would have worked MUCH better...they were trying for a more historical RH, and it would have worked, and would have allowed them to make the ages and childhood friends angle work.

In the first scenes with Marian, it comes across as she sent them away, and they were busy with all the people she was housing anyway(at least, that's what I tell myself) but later the castle is EMPTY.

Heh...they almost got themselves sued over Azeem/Nasir, but someone who had worked on ROS mentioned it just in time.

Pretty much everything in POT that works or almost works comes from ROS(in fact, in the ROS opening story, there's a scene where they're escaping the castle and a lot of it is VERY like the big battle at the end of POT. I remembered a lot of similarities, but watching POT yesterday and ROS today, they really stand out even more.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Ah, but POT still had that "Robin was Marian's TWU LUV" syndrome that didn't allow it to be realistic when it came to Marian being a widow. It would have made sense that the character who was her brother in the movie should have been her husband instead. Then it would have made perfect sense that she was that old and would have a connection to Robin.

The problem with POT is that they don't really commit. Robin doesn't look like he's having any fun, the Sheriff looks like he's out of another movie entirely, Will seems to have dropped in from an angsty teen movie somewhere, and there are druids running around. They just didn't pick something and stick with it. Michael Praed's version of Robin at least looks like he's having fun helping the poor and sticking it to the Sheriff.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Very true. and yeah, the...hodgepodge...is one of the movie's big weaknesses. It's like different people were told they were making a different kind of movie.

One thing that Praed(and most other Robins) has that Costner was lacking was the unshakable feeling that it was RIGHT. Not that he was right, but that what he's doing and why he's doing it is nboth right and necessary. It's not even that HE has to be the one doing it...like he says, if he dies, one of the others will take up his place, because it's what has to be done. In contrast, Costner more feels like he went "well I lost my lands and underlings, I'll just steal some new ones" and he feels like he's more defaulting to what he's doing than doing what he has to do. He also draws more attention to the ransom than other Robin's do...it's like he just wants the attention at times.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

You've pin pointed part of my major problem with Costner's version. Robin becomes a thief more to get revenge than to do what's right. Praed's version views what he's doing as a necessary evil. He's doing this for the people instead of giving them the spoils of what he was going to do anyway.

Another thing I like about Praed's version is that he occassionally screws up royally. Costner's is always right and his plans always ingenious. Praed often gets out of binds more by luck or picking superior friends than anything else.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Costner's version is written as the heroic rebel, but doesn't really come off as overly heroic. It's just a beneficial side effect. Yeah, you get the feeling that he'd do good anyway, but unlike Praed, Todd, Flynn, etc., it doesn't feel like it's his goal.

stupid me forgot to say...

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

They get the "flawed" part right with Praed but not with Costner...Costner's flaws-the rebellious son-are in the past and his present is perfect. Praed just charges in because he has to and hopes that if it gets him killed, the next guy will do a better job than he did, because he has faith there WILL be a next guy...it's not remotely about him, he just happens to be the guy doing it at the time.

And yes, he is very lucky in his choice of friends.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

If that's how their "research" was done,
Heheheh, well it is better to research any Richard Carpenter series than anything else :) After all he brought us Catweazle :) *pets Touchwood*

Stll better than that godawful Robin series from Australia/New Zealand in the 90's that looked like Xena and Herc had gotten the wrong detour and ended up in Medieval England who just happened to look like the jungles of New Zealand ... Heh!

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

What version was that? It actually sounds rather amusing.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Liked Xena. Loved Hercules. Watched 10 minutes of that and looked for something else. It was...Roar took the Xena/Hercules route, and it mostly worked. But that was just silly, and not in the good way. And I understand what I saw was it at it's better stage.

Imagine Marian dressed rather like Xena or latter day Gabrielle stalking into Prince John's throneroom with a couple others and posing while Robin makes his speech and no one noticing or caring about the fact that it's a castle full of, you know, guards and there are about 5 of them...

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Oh lor, I'm just finishing Roar and I don't know whether to like it or hate it. It can't seem to figure out if it wants to work the camp or be serious, which is a problem.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

That's the problem i have with it inmy memories. IIRC, worked best when serious.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

I don't know but it looked like it was of the same production team as made Xena and Herc, but I could be mislead because of the New Zealand landscape ;) They showed it over here in the mid 90's I think and it was bad, it wasn't even amusingly bad, just BAD.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think it was the same people as Herc and Xena. Except it worked there and ot in RH. Only RH I've ever just turned off.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Tot ell you the truth I have only seen a handful of eps of both series ... Why? Because Claudia Black (Aeryn Sun from Farscape, Vala from SG1) was guesting :)

[southerndave.livejournal.com]

I live in New Zealand and don't remember that version. I suppose that is something to be grateful for...

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Based on the bit I saw, indeed.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Heh...I think that show is the only time I've turned Robin Hood on and changed the channel 10 minutes later...and I liked Xena and LOVED Hercules...but that was...yeah...

Have you seen the current Robin Hood series? I'm rather curious about it.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the new series yeat and even though I like the male lead, I'm a bit antsy to actually watch it. Same with the third and fourth season of RoS, when Jason Conenry as Robin of Loxley took over. *sigh* I don't like change a lot *grin*

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I'm told that it's good, but haven't seen any. Supposedly it takes the more modern approach, too, but in a good way, not the horrible way.

You mean Robert of Huntingdon?(Praed is Loxley...) I haven't seen ANY of his eps, actually, so I'm somewhat looking forward to it.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Robert of Huntingdon?
See? I'm in denial!! Jason Connery never happened ... that arrow in the back at Stone henge never happened!!! *lol*
Well, seriously, he wasn't bad, and it was lovely to see the gang together again for two more seasons, but somehow I never could get my mind around a blonde Robin.

Oh I almost forgot .. Guy of Gisbourne aka Gissy-Baby!!! I loved him in his klutziness :)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Heh...supposedly, Praed left to moce on to bigger and better things, then called and said he'd come back as long as nothing sharp and pointy was sticking out of him, but they'd already recast.

Guisborne does hase his own charm, doesn't he?

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Actually my best friend went to see him in that Pirates of Penzance opera (it was still called opera and not musical at that time) Oh and his 3 musceteers also sunk. Poor man, I htink he never got rid of the RoS image, and I think he totally lost it when he appeared on Dynasty :s

I loved Gisbourne. Too bad that Robert Addie who played him died a couple of years back on cancer.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think Robin Hood is rather like Superman in that once you're known for it, you're stuck with that image for life. Doesn't seem to happen to the rest of the cast, though.

Sigh...I just finished the "Witch of Elsdon" ep...poor Will...the look on his face when he sees the happy couples reuniting and he has to leave...I also notive he seems relatively helpless(but not in the crushing way) when being called off by Marian.

BTW, posted a lot of pics from that other Robin Hood show.

[foenix.livejournal.com]

Men in Tights is probably one of my favourite takes on the story. It gets the core of the legends, while injecting a ton of humour.

And it had a redhead.

Which reminds me, I need to get Dracula: Dead & Loving It soon.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Hey, ever since Robin of Sherwood, Marian has changed from a brunette to a redhead. And yes, it's tons of fun, and one of it's main points was that POT missed the point.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I can't wait to read up your stuff on RoS. I loved it. They actually dubbed it into Russian and showed it in the USSR when I was a kid (I guess because of the fighting the opressor) and I fell madly in love. Me and my cousin would play Robin Hood in the attic in the summer. I rewatched it a couple of years back (got the DVDs from England) and 80s hair aside, loved it as much as ever. and on a shallow note, Michael Praed=HOT.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Hey, get rid of the hairspray and blowdryer and Praed's hair would be fine.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

It's so feathery and light. I might actually be jealous of his hair.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Don't forget his oh-so-clear skin.