Forbidden Kingdom

[meganbmoore]

I just want to mention that i feel like I was forced to pay penance to get to see this.  First, there were the commercials, two of which were of the "if you use this cleaning/hygiene product, women will rip their clothes off and then try to rip yours off" variety.  Then there were the previews.  The first preview was, as near as I can tell, about how black cops are evil and if they're your neighbors, they will criminally harass you and flaunt their power when you object.  The only redeeming value to the previews after that was the second Hellboy movie, which actually just reminded me that I never did see the first.

Anyway, the movie.

It's Jet Li and Jackie Chan fighting and that's all you need to know.

Ok, fine, there's a plot.  Of sorts.

Essentially, some modern kid named Jason in what I believe is Boston(I don't know...the accents were almost incomprehensible.  It's bad when I can understand the people who's first language isn't English better than I can those whose first language is English.  Supposedly.  Accents are not things to be abused, Hollywood!) is a Kung Fu movie nut who buys  bootleg DVDs from a pawnshop.  When local bullies force him to trick the pawn shop owner into letting them in so they can steal his money, he ends up with a staff that transports him to a world that resembles medieval China.  There, he's saved from the evil Jade Warlord's troops by a drunken kung fu master named Lu(Jackie Chan)  who tells him that the staff belongs to the legendary trickster, monkey, who was tricked by the Jade Warlord 500 years ago, and that Jason is the destined seeker who has to return the staff to Monkey.  Soon, they're joined by a monk(Jet Li) who has been looking for the Seeker, and Golden Sparrow(Liu Yi Fei) and orphan whose family was killed by Jade Warlord.

Pretend nothing of the movie exists between the opening fight scene with Monkey, and when Jackie Chan shows up and saves Jason.  You'll be happier that way.

Short version:  Jet Li and Jackie Chan are awesome.  Liu Yi Fei and Li Bing Bing are exceptionally pretty.  Thanks no doubt to their wuxia serials, they were able to churn out fight scenes that didn't make then look like complete amateurs as compared to Li and Chan.  Jason was no where near as annoying or intrusive as he could have been.  The fights were awesome.  He was obviously a complete amateur as compared to the others, but they didn't try to show him as anything else.  If you try to line anything up with Journey to the West, you'll just get a headache, but I liked the twist on the Monkey and Monk roles(Monk being one of Monkey's duplicates who has been trying to find the staff and free Monkey for 500 years)  And if whatever manhua it was that I read a few years ago was fairly accurate about the personas of the Eight Immortals, that's a fun twist, too.  (In the manhua, Master Lu was, IIRC, the extremely serious, honorable and noble leader of the immortals.)  

There are exactly two female characters of note.  There are exactly three characters of note who die.  One is the main villain.  The other two are the two female characters.

(I don't count Monk's death, as he was reabsorbed into Monkey, and Monkey's behavior at the end seemed very different from his behavior before being turned into stone, making me think that Monk's experiences are now a part of Monkey and his personality.

In all honesty, it is a rather fun movie, as long as you turn off your brain.  Lu and Monk were a blast, both when they were fighting, and when they weren't.  Jason was blatantly shoehorned in because it's Hollywood and there has to be an American.  In the end, though, he is more sidekick than lead, and the movie is more Monkey/Monk's movie than his.  The movie also realizes that many of us will just wish for him to go away, so it has Jackie Chan and Jet Li and the bad guys beat him up a lot.  Golden Sparrow actually had the potential to be a much strong character than Jason, but she was relegated to being the nominal love interest/heroine fighter chick.  In my ideal version of the movie, there is no Jason and Golden Sparrow is the Seeker, and her travels with Lu and Monk teach her to value friendship over revenge.

And speaking of Golden Sparrow, how much of a more facepalm-y death could she have had, anyway?  Sequence of events:  Golden Sparrow and White Haired Witch fight.  Golden Sparrow loses, but is saved by Lu.  Since she really is a kid way out of her league as compared to Lu and Monk(something that had been brought up before, for both her and Jason) I can live with that.  Just like I can be ok with Monk telling her she should go home but not Jason, because not only did he not know her story then, but not only is Jason the Seeker who they can't succeed without, but they can't send Jason home until they save Monkey.  But then she gets her chance to get her revenge against Jade Warlord.  When the men in the movie attack someone, they just up and attack, no dillydallying.  Their attacks work.  Golden Sparrow deliberately draws Jade Warlord's attention to herself, announces her intentions, then telegraphs her attack by pulling her poisoned hairpin out.  She fails.  He kills her.  Jason gets revenge for her...by sneaking up behind Jade Warlord and not saying anything, then stabbing him when Monkey knocks Jade Warlord in range.

See the problem, here?

As a side note, I really hope Liu Yi Fei doesn't weigh that much, given how often her male costars have to carry her around.

So, anyway, just go to admire the pretty and enjoy the Jet Li and the Jackie Chan.  A lot of the humor is pretty decent, too.  Well, just the parts with Li and Chan, but was anyone paying attention to Jason when they weren't around, anyway?  But large chunks of plot should be ignored.

Also: smillaraaq, based on what I remember of you've told me about it, I suspect White Haired Witch(I think that really is her name) is an homage to Bride With White Hair.  In addition to the prehensile white hair, she was raised by wolves, and she made a comment that made me think she hated men, both of which I think you mentioned in relation to that movie.

Also, out of curiosity, are personal pronouns difficult to learn for chinese speakers?  I ask because Golden Sparrow always refers to herself as "her," as in "her name is Golden Sparrow," and never says "I" or "me."  I'm wondering if it was supposed to be an affectation of the character's, or if it was just a language barrier Liu Yi Fei had problems with.  (Mind you, as I don't think they dubbed the actors, and I'm pretty sure she didn't speak english before the movie, so I'm not exactly complaining.)

ETA:  Have been discussing the movie with kingcrankycatand now seem to remember Liu Yi Fei using "I" in the modern epilogue.  Since what we heard the characters saying in the Forbidden Kingdom was somehow translated for Jason, I'm wondering if it's another way of saying "I"(indicating humility, maybe?) that translated differently, and they just didn't bother to explain it.

Comments

[telophase.livejournal.com]

In my ideal version of the movie, there is no Jason and Golden Sparrow is the Seeker, and her travels with Lu and Monk teach her to value friendship over revenge.

I would totally watch that movie.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I would LOVE that movie. Seriously, GS had loads of potential as a character, and they wasted it to make her the nominal love interest for a far less interesting character. I do think they were trying to indicate something along those lines by not having her notice she'd dropped the hairpin until Jason picked it up after she saved him in the desert, and by having her focus on getting the elixir for Lu instead of revenge when she and Monk invaded the palace, but since she played backseat to Jason in almost all of her scenes, it just emphasized the wasted potential.

[shadawyn.livejournal.com]

Right before Sparrow dies, I think she refers to herself as "I", as she does in the ending reincarnation-whatever sequence. I *think* they were trying to be clever and show her as disassociated from herself due to her angst/grief/lack of character development.

You are much kinder to this movie than I was. But I think it snowballed. The more it annoyed me, the more things annoyed me. I was talking to the dude about it, and I think I felt like they had changed the formula just enough that I couldn't take it as just "woo cheesy kung fu movie fun and pretty!" like I really wanted to.

Oh well.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was talking about the movie with kingcrankycat, and I remembered her using "I" when reincarnated. I'm thinking now that, since what we heard her say through most of the movie was being translated for Jason, she originally used a form of "I" that indicates humility or somesuch, so it translated differently. But they didn't bother to explain it.

A lot of the movie really did snowball, I think because...well...it was Hollywood trying at wuxia and, more importantly, Journey to the West.

[shadawyn.livejournal.com]

I'm *pretty* sure she used "I" right before she died in her last breath conversation with Jason (after he blunderingly kills the Jade Lord), but I could easily be mistaken, and don't have any terribly great interest in re-watching it to find out ;)

[fmanalyst.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed it as pure good fun with great fights, which after last week's office politics and Friday evening's depression, was just what I needed.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I enjoyed it as, too. I just wish they hadn't wasted the potential of the Golden Sparrow character.

[isweedan]

I think, If I could have just turned off the talking and watched the pretty fighting, I would have enjoyed it so much more.

When American boy still couldn't understand Chinese I was delighted. It would have been so very lame for everyone to be speaking English right from the start. I think it would have been terribly interesting to have this huge language barrier all movie.

I had this strange suspicion that the 'she' instead of 'I' thing was just the movie trying to evoke bad subtitles or some sense of the exotic.

I watched with auditorium of college students so when Liu Ye Fei died in American boy's arms someone shouted out "Kiss her anyway!"

The romance thread was so badly done that this might have given it something interesting. I mean, the music cues, and the soulful eyes,it was so very cliche that everyone laughed. Did the director have no shame?

Er. I might have remembered to turn my cellphone off, but forgotten to turn off mah brain.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I was absolutely delighted when he couldn't understand anything at first. I wish there had been moments where they made it clear it was being translated for him, by making him have no idea what was being said a few times, or something like that.

I suspect the "romance" was only there because the director thought, "well, of course the beautiful vengeance driven girl will fall for the all american joe schmoe right away. they always do."

[isweedan]

*headdesk* Of course.

[jennawaterford.livejournal.com]

It was a nicely done on-ramp picture for the general american audience. It was fun and fluffy and everyone was clearly having a good time.

Sparrow did say "I" right before she died, and I thought that explained the significance well enough -- she was living her life not for herself but in order to have vengeance for her dead family so her identity and what she wanted for herself were remote things. Once she had achieved her goal, she was complete and could become "I." Your theory probably plays into it, too.

I found the American boy much less annoying than I thought I would mostly because he didn't become this amazing kung fu god; he became proficient -- good enough to not die immediately which of course was enough to be amazing back home. He wasn't the focus as much as I thought he'd be, either and the entire cast was used well.

Plus also? Jackie Chan/Jet Li fighting? Jet Li *smiling*?

What's not to love?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think they saved themselves with Jason's character by not going the normal route of having him become an awesome fighter(by the standards of that world) but instead, only good enough to keep himself alive until the others could come and save his butt.

The whole "I thing is just further proof the Sparrow had lots of potential that was wasted by not letting her be any more than the token love interest.

And Jet Li as *spoiler for anyone reading comments who skipped spoiler parts*

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

I suspect White Haired Witch(I think that really is her name) is an homage to Bride With White Hair. In addition to the prehensile white hair, she was raised by wolves, and she made a comment that made me think she hated men, both of which I think you mentioned in relation to that movie.

*nods* I have also seen in reviews that her name is actually Ni Chang? That is the name that Leslie Cheung's character gives the nameless wolf-girl when they fall in love; it's really starting to seem like the only way the homage could possibly be more blatant would be if they'd persuaded Brigitte Lin to come out of retirement for the role.

(And yes, you should watch the first Hellboy movie. It deviates from some of the Mignola canon in various small ways, but I didn't really care because it was so very true to the grand pulpy spirit of the books, and Perlman was the perfect choice for someone who could emote and convey character behind all those layers of prosthetics.)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Maybe they didn't say the character's name? Or only in passing, so it didn't register? Does Brigitte Lin's character use a whip? If so...

I always meant to see the Hellboy movie, I just never really got a chance to.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

Does Brigitte Lin's character use a whip? If so...

Eeeeeyep. It's her main weapon throughout most of the first film, until she goes all witchy and crazy and starts killing people with her hair. (And IIRC, in the second movie she's mostly referred to as "the white-haired witch", since the name was just a pet thing between her and her lover, not widely known...)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, apparently, Li Bing Bing's character is just that character in between movies or some such. Or so all these similarities lead me to believe.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

BWAH. Just saw the film tonight with chomiji&family, and was cracking up throughout. When one of the DVDs the kid is commenting on in the pawn shop is The Bride With White Hair? Yeah, they are so not even trying to hide it. Too, too funny.

LBB definitely seemed to me to have studied the film, or been coached by someone who had: her body language and line delivery are very, very much like the original character. She doesn't quite manage to replicate Brigitte's famous soul-curdling Gaze Of Doom, but really, few mortals can, and she makes a decent enough try at it.

And even her funkily-dressed henchmen are more than a bit reminiscint of the hill-tribe cultists she works with in the first film.

I was paying pretty close attention, as much as I could through all the giggling, but I did not notice anyone actually call her by name in the actual dialogue, but she is listed as "Ni Chang" rather than "Witch" in the end credits.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think the closest they ever came to naming her in the movie was when Jade Warlord called her "The White Haired Witch." Other times she was referrenced, I don't think there was even that.

I hope this movie helps out both LBB and LYF's careers a lot. I...ahh...don't care if I never see Jason again.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I second the Hellboy rec. It is really, really good, lots of action, and the romance is a natural outgrowth of the characters. (It also helps a lot that they had history from before the movie opened, so you don't have the same old same old superhero meets supergirl.)

Also, I adore the heroine, both because of her powers and because she saves the hero.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I thought the kid was the most annoying thing ever. I bet GS died solely to avoid having to make out with him. Ugh.

But the rest of the movie was fun.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Jason was by far the least interesting and least useful part of the movie, but I've been subjected to his character type enough to appreciate that he's far less annoying than he could have been. It helps that he got beat up a lot.

Again: In my ideal version of the movie, there is no Jason and Golden Sparrow is the Seeker, and the movie is about her, Lu and Monk, and she learns to value friendship over revenge during their travels. Sure, there's no room left for romance at all unless you're a slash fan or like may/december romances, but Journey to the West is supposed to be about self-discovery anyway. There's no need for romance there. (Besides, it wasn't much of a romance anyway...I think it was only there so the gorgeous asian girl could fall for the average all american joe schmoe and make a certain contingent of the target audience happy...let's face it, half the movie-goers ARE Jason...)

I am glad there was no kissing. Liu Yi Fei needs to hold out for some quality wuxia hero as her first onscreen kiss.

BUT LIU YI FEI AND LI BING BING WERE PRETTY AND JET LI AND JACKIE CHAN WERE AWESOME AND IT WAS PRETTY AND THERE WERE FIGHTS AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!!!

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Golden Sparrow actually had the potential to be a much strong character than Jason, but she was relegated to being the nominal love interest/heroine fighter chick. In my ideal version of the movie, there is no Jason and Golden Sparrow is the Seeker, and her travels with Lu and Monk teach her to value friendship over revenge.


That would have been such an awesome movie, and the 'revenge is bad' theme would have made sense. Because that is actually an idea that people really have to sell me on - revenge is such an innate and automatic reaction to things like having your whole village and family slaughtered that I almost can't buy revenge not helping a little. I mean, it won't bring back your family, or make it any easier to connect to people and learn to love again, but you're going to have those issues regardless of whether the person is dead or not.

Puts on Aeryn voice: Shooting makes me feel better!

Hakkai: *agrees but politely don't say anything, because He Knows That Revenge Is Wrong, Even If He Really Can't Manage To Feel Sorry That A 1,000 Demons Died*

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Revenge has a 50/50 success rate for me. A lot of the time, its a very good motivating factor. But sometimes, it is used as a shortcut, hence some of the backlash. And there's a difference in types of revenge. There's revenge=backlash instinct and revenge=need justice for wrong(Scar, Rin in Blade of the Immortal) but sometimes it's just a hateful lashing out.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I am pretty pro-revenge, especially in fiction. If you're arguing that it's bad, I need you to SHOW me exactly what this character is doing that makes their desires unworthy, and it usually needs to involve killing innocents or putting people you are alive and you care about in harms way.

And in the case of Sparrow, or the stories where there is one, specific person who CLEARLY has it coming, you have a damn hard time convincing me that the best thing to do is forgive and rise about it.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think the problem when fiction addresses the problem with revenge is that it fails to distinguish between "revenge isn't right" and "revenge is wrong."

Look at Scar. Scar is right in seeking revenge and justice for what was done to his people, inclusion of brother optional(honestly, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back in some way.) He is not right, however, in taking his revenge out on every alchemist he finds. That how he seeks revenge may be wrong does not make his need for revenge wrong, nor does it excuse the wrong that was done to him.

Arakawa(and thus, the anime) gets the distinction. Another writer, however, could approach Scar purely from the perspective of "Scar is killing people for revenge" which, IMO, would completely miss the point of the character.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is well said. And I hadn't gotten it that straight in my head yet, but you're right about how subtly it's approached - right in motivations yet wrong in actions.

And by the way, how is that girl in your main icon for this post?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

A lot of readers/viewers tend to miss the distinction too: that just because a person is doing something wrong, it doesn't mean they don't have a good reason for it.

Girl in the icon is Liu Yi Fei/Golden Sparrow.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Ah.

She was gorgeous.