Question for Naruto fans

[meganbmoore]

 So, I haven't followed Naruto in over a year, and I doubt I'll ever go back to it.  Not fond of Naruto himself, and I liked Sasuke initially, but that died off pretty well.  And...that was pretty much the whole series. That and fighting/power up sequences that put Bleach to shame.   Also, I could never figure out if the text or the fandom was harder on Sakura.  Maybe if it ever finishes.

But I do have a question regarding Jiraiya and Tsunade.  

So, I know Jiraiya is dead.  I'm largely unaffected by this because my main interest in him was Tsunade, which tends to happen a lot, with me, romantically or otherwise.  (That is, interest in a male character at least partly dependent on his relationship with a female character I like.  Yes, I remain a fandom freak in this regard.)

My main question is whether or not their full backstory has been revealed, and if they ever went beyond the obvious proto-Naruto/Sakura thing with them.  Because I always wondered if there was more to it than her being irritated with his Peeping Tom ways.

Comments

[havocthecat]

That is, interest in a male character at least partly dependent on his relationship with a female character I like. Yes, I remain a fandom freak in this regard.

Is that freakish? Because I'm like that.

Oh, wait, yeah. I know for a fact it's freakish. *sigh*

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it seems to be freakish as far as most are concerned.

It is especially true of the shoujo genre of manga. it's supposed to be for and about teenaged girls. Therefore, I go in expecting a story about a girl with one or more cute accessories, hopefully accessories who are interesting and have more going for them than cuteness and angst. As a general rule, when the accessory takes over, I bolt. (Naruto isn't shoujo, but shounen-for boys-it's just that it's pretty much one of the worst popular series I've tried out regarding how the text treats the female characters.)

[the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com]

Hmm it's been a while since I read the pertinent chapters but IIRC, we never learned anything more about Jiraiya and Tsunade's history together. Certainly there was never any indication of romantic entanglements.

And as for your decision to stop reading Naruto, IMO it's probably for the best. Personally I've kept reading because I've grown very attached to a few of the characters, but the last 30-odd chapters have been particularly head-desk inducing. If you do have the urge to read more, I recommend the "Jiraiya dies" arc because it features an interesting pair of new Akatsuki members with a cool backstory.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I don't think I ever really parsed their relationship as romantic. I think I always assumed he had a crush when they were young and she went "*bleep* no," but that's about it.

I think being attached to the wrong characters(read: not appreciated/treated well/used much by the text) was a main factor in my dropping it. I think they're just caught up with Sasuke post-time jump at the time.

[shediao.livejournal.com]

There's no further backstory about the two of them together so far. It does seem that Tsunade used to be closer/more partial to Jiraiya than to Orochimaru during their younger days, but that's about it.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

YEah, it sounds like my (admittedly very slim) hopes that there's be more to their story than proto-Naruto/Sakura were futile. I figured s much, but ah well. (I'm actually not incredibly fond of Jiraiya, I just wanted more of a lasting, positive realtionship-romantic or otherwise-for Tsunade.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Well, she doesn't get it, poor girl.

The way he died, and how that was set up + Tsunade's reaction lead me to read the relationship as him loving her since forever, and her only realizing too late how much she cared about him.

I think Tsunade's lasting, positive relationship is most likely what she has with Shizune, and now with Sakura.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that reading fits with the impressions I remember having (something onesided on his part at some point, maybe or maybe not lasting)

The thing about Shizune and Sakura is that one is her subordinate, and the other her student. Neither is her equal, or will ever really be able to approach her on even ground, no matter how close they may be. If she were someone like, say, Yukimura in SDK, where she deliberately set herself up to not be able to have relationships like that, there wouldn't really be reason to care as much because, hey, dug your own grave, but Tsunade always struck me as wanting the ties and relationships, but as being terrified of losing again.

So, how did he die, and how'd she react? Or if you don't feel like a summary, do you happen to know the chapter numbers?

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Here be your links:

http://redbrunja.livejournal.com/181088.html?mode=reply

And while you're right about neither Shizune or Sakura being her equal, they are there. And no, Tsunade's... it's not even isolation more as evasion of getting to close was clearly her not being able to handle losing more people.

Also, added to that, in Jiraiya's case, I honestly don't think she realized how much he cared about her until it was too late.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the links. I'll look at them at work tomorrow. (onemanga is horribly slow on this computer.)

Oh, trust me, I'm not trying to undermine either relationship, but there's a difference between someone you can talk to as an equal, and someone who, by default, is cast in a position of always wanting to keep you pleased.

There's a difference between not wanting to go through the pain again and deliberately removing yourself, and between not wanting to go through the pain again and not realizing that you're removing yourself. One is sympathetic, but they do it to themselves. The other is tragic because they don't realize they're adding to their own pain. Tsunade always struck me as the latter.

I always had the feeling that Jiraiya had had a real crush on her when they were younger that never went away, but that Tsunade never believed it was serious.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between not wanting to go through the pain again and deliberately removing yourself, and between not wanting to go through the pain again and not realizing that you're removing yourself. One is sympathetic, but they do it to themselves. The other is tragic because they don't realize they're adding to their own pain. Tsunade always struck me as the latter.

Tsunade's doing that latter. I HIGHLY doubt that she's self-analyzing enough to realize what she's doing, and I don't think she's aware that she has a second chance in love until it's too late.

I always had the feeling that Jiraiya had had a real crush on her when they were younger that never went away, but that Tsunade never believed it was serious.

Yep. That's how I always read it. With the addendum that I don't think that Tsunade realized how much she cared about Jiraiya until she lost him.

[magicnoire.livejournal.com]

The way he died, and how that was set up + Tsunade's reaction lead me to read the relationship as him loving her since forever, and her only realizing too late how much she cared about him.

That's pretty much how I read their relationship too.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

What does it say about me that this is about the only thing that makes me interested in reading Naruto again?

Unless he actually makes Kiba/Hinata canon, or gives Sakura a fair shake, but he'll never do either of those.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

That you have taste? Honestly, Tsunade/Jiraiya is one of the best relationships OF ANY KIND Kishimoto ever wrote, if not the best.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

It's the only one he wrote much of that I was big on. The others are pretty much only brief glimpses. And really, we mostly got to see a big chunk with them because it was Naruto bonding with her and the Orochimaru fight.