movie: Hellboy

[meganbmoore]

 Yes, this is my first time seeing this.  Yes, I've been meaning to since it came out.

It takes me a while to get to things sometimes.

Anyway, Hellboy (based on comics I also haven't read) is about a giant red guy with sawed off horns and a samurai hairstyle who likes cigars.  He came into being back in WWII when Rasputin, some scientists, and some soldiers (and moar Russians) opened a doorway to Hell.  (Or a hell.)   The Rasputin got sucked in and the hole spat baby Hellboy out.  Cut forward to a few years ago today, and Hellboy works for the US government fighting monsters.  With a few other "freaks."  But then Rasputin's girlfriend resurrects him and they go and bring in moar monsters.  Because that's what sorcerers who spent 50 years in hell do.

All this within the first 20 minutes.

I had much pulpy fun, but have little substantial to say.

I must ask, though:  Is stalking his love interests a Thing of Ron Perlman's?  Or at least, when he's playing inhuman characters?  (It's less odd, though, if you think of him as being perpetually 10, and Liz is the best friend who moved to a new school and he can't take it...especially with all his "She belongs here with the other freaks us, not out there!" talk.)  Ron Perlman was awesome, BTW.  But then, I expected him to be.

Also, why are all the male "freaks" monstrous in some physical way (even Rasputin had the eye thing) but the female ones are all normal and pretty.  I count Rasputin's girlfriend, as that woman did not look 80~.  I mean, I'm all for cool freaky looking guys and pretty girls both, but it's a pretty noticable division.

Liz can only use her powers at higher levels if she's hit?  (Or, I assume, any sort of painful physical impact.)  *sigh*  Though, I think I remember hearing some things about the comic that make me think it probably doesn't stand out as much there.  I admit, I liked Liz, but she'd been built up to me a bit as an independent badass, so I felt a little let down.  I think that was more in reference to the second movie, though.

And is Abe really male?  I ask because, while they identify him as male, he struck me as more androgynous.

Random question:  While I was watching, I remembered seeing some complaints about how they did the Hellboy/Liz romance.  Is it less romantic in the comics, dynamic changes, etc?  I actually wouldn't care much, except that I know I'll be trying to remember until I know.

Eeh...this probably sounds fairly critical, but I think I'm just nitpicking after a long day.

It has a giant, red Ron Perlman carrying half a Russian zombie on his back with the aid of a noose and fighting a giant tentacle monster.  What more do you want?

Comments

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

The stalkyness is something that was added for the movie. (Actually, the whole Liz/Hellboy thing was all movie-verse, unless they've brought it up in some recent comics that I've missed; but in the original comics canon, he's got more of a big-brother vibe around Liz. I'm quite a ways behind on the BPRD stuff, but back in the actual Hellboy title I don't recall either character explicitly shown with any romantic relationships (although I always thought there was a little subtextual chemistry between Liz and Abe, Liz and Roger, and Hellboy and Dr. Kate Cavendish.) There is a past canon romance for Abe that is kind of spoilery to go into much detail on, and there have been a couple of romances for Hellboy in novel-canon which may or may not be accepted into comic-canon. I'm behind on the novels, so for all I know they may have given some love to Abe or Liz there too.

As for freaks looking monstrous being split on gendered lines -- again, this is mostly only covering Hellboy canon since I'm way behind on BPRD, but in the original books there was mostly a very tight focus on Hellboy himself. But from the little glimpses we see of the rest of the BPRD, it seems like actual "freaks" are a very small part of it -- most of its personnel are relatively normal (and normal-looking) humans, priests and academics and psychic-sensitive types. So most of the women we've seen associated with the Bureau have been normal-looking, but they've mostly also been fairly normal. We also see a lot of normal human men in passing as well, but the story focus is generally fairly tightly focused on the more visual/dramatic potential of the freaks. If you want to include the various non-human creatures Hellboy and company deal with, now, there have been a large number of visibly freakish female characters -- one of the major recurring antagonists has been the Baba Yaga.

Liz's powers only working when hit is purely movie canon. In the comicsverse, she is extremely powerful, but has been deeply conflicted about her powers and being "stuck" at the BPRD because of them; she has not always had full control over them, and killed her family by accident when the ability first manifested itself. (In one rather memorable arc she even attempts to rid herself of them, but again, can't say much without spoiling that storyline.) Her lack of control in the movieverse is exaggerated -- in the comicsverse, her powers were uncontrolled when she was younger, but she's been learning to channel and control them and has not had any spontaneous outbursts for many years.

Ilsa von Haupstein not looking 80 actually fits the comic canon, where she's part of a group of high-ranking Nazis who have put themselves into a sort of cryogenic cold storage -- the guys are all perfectly preserved, too. That said, I would have parsed her character as a little older than the actress -- but that's as much me going by her high rank as anything, Mignola's art is so stylized that character ages aren't really obvious.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

If it hadn't been for the "It's romantic! They're in love!" comments and the flaming end scene makeout session, I probably would have interpretted Hellboy's interest in Liz as more of a protective big brother than anything else. Which would have also put a different spin on the stalking and "she belongs with us" talk.

Liz as you describe her fits what I was expecting. IIRC, she seemed more badass in the previews for the second movie that I've seen.

I kind of assumed that, or learning magic on her own to explain Ilsa's age. I kind of loved her. I have a weakness for the evil Russian/Nazi(depending on which the plot calls for) chick in these plots.

Baba Yaga is always a plus.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

Liz definitely gets more Badass Screen Time in the second movie. Mind you, she is also much more overtly treated as The Hero's Girlfriend, and a lot of what she's doing comes down to her relationship with the guys, but...I don't mind it as much as as I might have since she still gets to be a powerful character who makes her own decisions? She's not there just to look pretty and give the guys something to rescue -- there are actually several scenes where she's the one who comes in and saves the boys. So on the one hand, yeah, she's clearly just there to be The Love Interest -- but at least she still gets to have a personality and powers and choices, instead of just being there to give the guys some motivation. I prefer the comics characterization, but I can see why the movie team felt the need to have a romantic subplot for a summer blockbuster, and I'm happy that they managed to come up with an AU-ish version of Liz who still kept a lot of the things that made canon-Liz awesome. Most of the characters here including the big red guy himself are sort of AU-ish from the comics, but to my tastes they have done a very good job of keeping their essence intact. Liz in current canon is more powerful and controlled -- but this conflicted side with more lack of control and angst over it is part of her backstory. Hellboy in current canon feels a lot older and more world-weary -- but this younger, less cynical version fits his past too.

And if you liked Ilsa...well, she gets a lot more on-screen time and things to do in the comics than she did in the movie.

[coraa.livejournal.com]

I'm usually pretty sensitive to stalkery behavior, so I don't know why Hellboy didn't bother me -- except, actually, for exactly what you say: he seems to be doing more of a ten-year-old 'don't abandon me for the cool kids!' thing than an obsessive jealous lover thing.

They say in the movie that he's physically sixtysomething but mentally mid-twenties; I think perhaps emotionally preteen.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Red in the movieverse feels much, much younger mentally/emotionally than he does in the present-day comic setting. But in the movieverse, his adoptive father-figure has been alive until recently, and he's had a lot less direct contact with the outside world, being sequestered when not on missions; in the comicsverse, Bruttenholm died somewhat earlier, and Hellboy's been out and about much more, so there's much more weight of experience to his characterization.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

The stalkery could (and probably should) come across a lot worse. Really, though, if you take out the "because he loves her!" part it feels more like friends/big brother, and alone, neither the stalking or the "she should be with us and nowhere else" is as bad. It just when all three are combined that it becomes a bit "uhm..."

[fivil.livejournal.com]

I should rewatch this because the 2nd movie looks awesome. I don't have much analytical stuff to say about it either, my memories are pretty vague at this point but I recall it being a solid good comic book film. Not the best one but among the better ones in that field of movies.

I don't remember shipping Liz/Hellboy all that much when I watched the first film but watching the trailer of the 2nd one I was "aww"ing.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

The romance in the movie is ok (just go "mentally 10 with abandonment issues") but rather tacked on. It looked more my style in the previews for the second. I think my expectations for Liz and the relationship were based on my seeing the trailers for the second before the movie.

I kept waiting for her big badass moment, and she really never got one.

[mcchica.livejournal.com]

The romance being tacked on is even worse in the second movie. I enjoyed the second one, but I could have done without the romance in either.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Liz gets more control over her abilities in the second movie; in the first, she's pretty much just worked to keep from using them at all, but after returning to the BPRD works more to control them in a useful way.

And Hellboy being stalkerish? I view him as a guy who never really had the chance to develop socially. On that level, he's the guy in junior high who's awkwardly trying to figure out how to ask out the girl he has a crush on.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the stalking doesn't really bother me much because of the "Mentally 10" part. It stood out mostly because that was going on a lot in his Beauty and the Beast TV series back in the 80s.

[shartyrant.livejournal.com]

In the comics, Liz and Hellboy don't have a romantical romance. Both have hints or some sort of relationships with other people. It was the one thing that pissed me off with the movies as I don't understand why that element was added. Especially the ending of the second movie just bugged the hell out of me. Who cares about the romance? It actually detracts from the movie.

Sorry. I loved the comics and when I first saw the movie that just annoyed me at the drastic changes on that relationship. Everything else was cool as I love Ron's work. I still need to see the second movie, but I have several friends who seen it and loved (and proceeded to tell me everything about it including spoilers).

The comics are great if you really want to get into the folklore or mythology that Mike Mignola researches for each story. A lot of these stories are based on real folk lores or legends which is one of the aspects I enjoyed. Plus, how can you resist a demon who goes around yelling "boom" everytime he hits someone?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the romance felt added on because Hollywood needs a romance.

I've been planning to read the comics for a long while, I just haven't yet.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

I didn't really notice it needing to be 'hit' precisely, just needing to be 'shocked' or pissed off, to loosen her control.

In the comics, there was definitely more of an Abe/Liz undertone. I never had a problem with it--though I prefer it in the second movie--but I know some die-hard comic fanatics were really stoked about it.

Ron Perlman is too awesome to be believed. Have you ever seen City of Lost Children?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I took it as needing physical pain. If she needed to be shocked or pissed, asking someone to do it and being prepared for it wouldn't really work in that context.

No, I haven't seen "City of Lost Children," what is it?

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

Also La Cité des enfants perdus. It's a french film, clearly, and very...hmm, eccentric. I loved it, but I'm not sure about your tastes in that quarter. It's about a scientist who kidnaps children to steal their dreams, but can only get their nightmares. One of the children kidnapped is the little brother of Ron Perlman's character and he sets off to find him. I think it's underappreciated, and you mentioned liking Ron Perlman, so I thought I'd toss the reference your way.

[uclamaverick.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add to the conversation other than this picture:



Enjoy.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

AWESOMESAUCE.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I approve!