(no subject)

[meganbmoore]

Not that I need more books, but can anyone offer up opinion on Sara Douglass's Wayfarer books, Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel books, Brian Sanderson's Mistborn books, or Elizabeth Hayden's Symphony of Ages books?  (Yes, I know those aren't the official titles for some...)

Comments

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Douglass has one of the worst prose styles I've ever encountered. Avoid.

I didn't like the first Hayden book enough to finish it. Cookie-cutter high fantasy with nothing to distinguish it from a million other books.

Carey I like a lot, but she is not to everyone's tastes-- definitely a love-or-hate writer. The first page of the first book should be enough to tell you whether you love or hate her prose, style, and/or heroine. There's some pretty extreme BDSM in the first book.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think I tried reading either Douglass or Hayden ages ago (as in, in college when they first came out) but didn't finish it. But I don't know if it was from badness, or because bricks were too long for me to read then outside of breaks.

I may actually have acquired the first Carey on a whim at a bookstore visit, though.

[ryanitenebrae.livejournal.com]

Well, all I know about the Kushiel books is that they contain a great deal if smut. ^^; Sorry I can't help more.

[mymorphine.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with rachelmanija on Hayden's stuff, although there're some pretty interesting plot bits in the average high-fantasy world it's set in. Also, how obtuse the main characters were to each other actually made me throw the book against the wall, but at least I picked it up again and read voraciously until they figured out what I'd been mad at them for. XD Meh, perhaps not the greatest investment of money in the world, but I found them interesting when I'd nothing else to read.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Define "obtuse."

[booster17.livejournal.com]

Love the Kushial books, but her prose style can be annoying to some people. I think Amazon might have some actual pages to view if you're interested.

[vierran45.livejournal.com]

I haven't read any of the others, but I borrowed the first Hayden trilogy from a friend and for some weird reason even all three of them even though I hated the Mary Sue heroine (everybody loves her and she's incredibly beautiful, but of course doesn't know it herself etc etc) and wanted to throw the books into the wall quite a few times. I also ended up ranting quite a bit about the books to the friend who had loaned them to me.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

But not on LJ?

[estara.livejournal.com]

There was an excellent in-depth impression on Dear Author about Jaqueline Carey
http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2008/11/03/if-you-like-jacqueline-careys-kushiel-series-hosted-by-val-kovalin/

I like her world-building and characters, at least of the first trilogy ^^

[escalove.livejournal.com]

I absolutely loathe The Wayfarer Trilogy, like loathe it, I second the bad prose comment but I loathe the romantic plots in the series, and it is one of the few books that I actually wanted to you know toss across the room and then rip the pages out. So I would say avoid it, it wasn't even bad in an entertaining way.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Err...yeah. Bad romantic plotlines are a no for me. I don't even know why they tend to end up a dealbreaker so much when they're rarely my main reason for reading/watching something.

[sureasdawn.livejournal.com]

Dougass: Unreadable
Carey: First Trilogy is good though lots of kinky stuff and sexual violence, second trilogy gets progressively less readable.
Hayden: Good worldbuilding, but the characters I liked best were a bit mishandled, and the Main is a giant Mary-Sue. Couldn't get through the second trilogy.
Sanderson: Haven't read yet.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

*sees icon*

Is that the cover of Od Magic?

[irysangel.livejournal.com]

*GIGGLE*

Symphony of Ages?

Okay, Haydon has some great ideas, but they're all wrapped up in the MARY SUE-IEST OF MARY SUES.

Example: At one point, the main character walks into town and everyone stares at her. She thinks, oh noes, they stare because I am so heeedious. But really, they are all thinking, OMG she is so beyooootiful we cannot stop staring! So then she has a complex about how ugly she is.

I do not think it is your sort of thing. :)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Mary sue thing seems to be a universal impression.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Wayfarer : horrible, horrible books I regret having read.
Kushiel : fun and quality guilty pleasure. The prose is somewhat purple but amusing, the world building is actually quite good, and the characters tend to be likeable and vibrant. The plots are very so-so, and you've gotta accept the gimmick of sacred masochist prostitute saves the world without snickering to appreciate it.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

You say "sacred masochist prostitute saves the world" and my my first thought is "Is if based on a Kaori Yuki or Higuri You manga?"

[lotuseyes.livejournal.com]

I"m reading through Sanderson's 'Mistborn' series now (just finished Part 1 of the first book 'Mistborn') and I'm enjoying it a lot. I can't say anything for the other two books in the trilogy (or if I will even love Mistborn completely), but so far its great fun. Vin, one of the main protags of Mistborn, is fun character. I do know that Sanderson's other book, Elantris, was VERY good fantasy. I devoured that in about a day or two.

I liked the premise of Haydon's books, but like the others I couldnt' read them. Same for Douglass (though I was trying to read her 'Games of Troy', I think that's the name of it, series). I couldn't read the Kushiels, despite them being recc'ed to me by everyone, because of the smut. I don't mind some smexy, but there's some kinky smexy in those books though I read Anne Bishop's Black Jewels books without problem....

[mycenae.livejournal.com]

The Black Jewels books were loltastic fantasy smut, with like underage furry sex but it's all a dream, whereas the Kushiel books* were like OMG RAZOR BLADES GO WHERE? DO NOT WANT!

*I only read about half of the first one, so I don't know if they got better or worse.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Ugh, Kushiel made me sick: it's all about sex sex sex, and some sigusting BDSM sex at that (I don't care if consensual adults want to engage in it, it's their own business. But I do care if I have to read about it, in graphic detail).

[morwen_peredhil]

Both the Douglass and Hayden series I remember abandoning unfinished in a "Good riddance!" sort of way, so I can't recommend them.

I read the first three Kushiel books before giving up on those. Mary Sue pain!smut, if that's what you're in the mood for. They were better than Douglass and Hayden, anyway.

[animeshon.livejournal.com]

I can't comment on any but the Jacqueline Carey books. I didn't want to read them at first and the BDSM in the first book was pretty shocking for tame little reader me. But I love them now.

I haven't read the Wayfarer book's by Douglass but I generally find her writing style just too blah for me (not a good description, but I loved the idea of the Troy Game and can't bring myself to finish the series)

[lotuseyes.livejournal.com]

I know the Troy Game (and its companions) sounded so cool, but I have picked it up a dozen times and can't get past the first twenty pages without sighing and getting distracted...

[sanada.livejournal.com]

Hayden... oh lol, read if you're in the mood for laughs, but only if you can get them for free from the library. As for Carey... my sister liked the Kushiel books, but I always had the slightly skeevy feeling that I was reading someone's sexual fantasies wrapped up in an overly pretty package. My sister insists that the series gets better after the first book, but I couldn't hack my way through the jungle of purple prose to make it that far.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Glad to see you're still around!

[anatomiste.livejournal.com]

I've read the first trilogy of Kushiel books twice--loved it the first time, had critiques the second. Of the second trilogy, I bought the first book, read it, left it on the shelf for a while, and then read it again because I thought I hadn't finished it the first time. Seriously, I would finish a chapter, think, "oh, I guess I got this far," and then discover I'd read the next one--all the way to the end. Come to think of it, that was only a few months ago and I can't now remember what the plot was.

The first trilogy is still lots of fun for me. Yes on what people have been saying about the kinky sex and the prose. Especially in the first two books, I'm content with the sex, because they're told from the POV of the person who's being hurt during sex in such a way that we're absolutely clear she likes it, and it's taking place in a world that makes a really big deal of consent. (Rape is, literally, heresy--which makes me happy.) In the third book, Carey steps over some of the limits that she sets in the first two, and which may already be too extreme for some people. I found it hard to read when I read and reread it several years ago, and now after spending a lot of time doing work against sexual violence, I think it would bother me a lot.

A concern that no one (so far) has brought up is how Eurocentric the books are. They're set in an alternate of our world. At the center is Terre d'Ange, which is France. The viewpoint character is extremely patriotic and presents her country as the cultural and spiritual peak of the world. Initially Terre d'Ange is threatened by neighboring barbarians (Germanic tribes) and attempts a friendly encounter with other neighboring barbarians (British Celts). There's a lot of typing by nationality going on, but this is obviously part of the viewpoint character's worldview, and as she matures, she learns to dismantle stereotypes.

The third book is different. The viewpoint character leaves the familiar Europe-region and goes south to an alternate-Africa. While other cultures and religions belonging to the Europe-region have been seen (by the viewpoint character) as different, a little strange, and not really as good as those practiced in Terre d'Ange, she's really viewed them as accessible and understandable choices. However, in the Africa-region (I believe in an alternate Sudan), she encounters a religion that is PURE EVIL, INCOMPREHENSIBLE, and MUST BE DESTROYED. This isn't just the viewpoint character's attitude; it's validated by the narrative structure. While this is a fantasy novel and therefore (I think) can contain things that really are EVIL, I find it really problematic that Carey chose to situate this in her alternate-Africa, whose cultures and religions have already had more than their share of being characterized by Europeans as evil, incomprehensible, and targeted for destruction.

[anatomiste.livejournal.com]

(I have a little more to say but I've just been summoned to eat!)

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

The Kushiel books had an interesting start (I only read the first trilogy), but I felt the third book was too rushed and brought things to a jumbled conclusion.

[magicnoire.livejournal.com]

I loved the first three Kushiel books. The second trilogy doesn't quite live up to the first, if only because it's not as over the top and the protagonist is an emo angstmuffin. They aren't to everyone's tastes, however,

[kingcrankycat.livejournal.com]

I have not read Mistborn, but it comes to me highly recommended from a friend I trust in such matters. It is currently number 2 on my too read pile.

[hrimcealde.livejournal.com]

the first of the Wayfarer series wasn't all bad--although it was pretty bad. But I wasn't sure about the other books so I looked up synopses, and they were BAD. She basically ruins her own plot, which was okay. not great, but okay.

The Kushiel series (the first trilogy) I loved. Each book sort of focuses on a different element to me--her physical life and development, her spiritual life and development, and her emotional life and development.

The plots are highly intricate and involve hundreds of characters--so much so that it comes with a dramatis personae in the front of the book. I needed it. Maybe other people could see the plot twists that were coming, but I sure couldn't. I think they're well written, beautiful books.

I have heard her other books Banewreaker, etc, were not as good.

[bzoppa.livejournal.com]

Reading through these comments, I got interested in the Kushiel books, so I checked the series out in fantasticfiction. Saw the first book and realized I randomly picked it up from the library one day (but never read it).

Thanks for the roundabout rec! I'll have to check the book out again. I do that a lot, check out books and never read them...

[telophase.livejournal.com]

Douglass: never read

Carey: Read first, hated the Mary Sue main character, didn't like anyting else enough to bother with reading more.

Sanderson: Have first book on shelf, have read first chapter. Too soon to say. Like his writing podcast.

Hayden: Read all three. Main character hideously flaming Mary Sue, but liked the two other characters she hung around with, read books for them. Have zero desire to re-read.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Unrelated: Have now read (but not yet posted on) the new Antique Gift Shop and Vol 7 of Angel Diary. Couldn't help noticing that Yang's robes at the death anniversary were very similar to Green Rupert's, though they could both just be wearing funeral garb. In Angel Diary, the male lead asks his underling to get him some demon hunters, and the underling says he'll get in youch with Green Rupert. Though I have no idea how much Angel Diary's version will have to do with the folklore version, if he actually appears.

[keilexandra]

Carey's Kushiel books are awesome. Tasteful, eloquent, non-gratituous (but explicit) BDSM; political intrigue and heart-breaking angst. Admittedly I've only read the first trilogy about Phedre, although I hear the Imriel books are good too.

I'm assuming that the Hayden series you're referring to begins with RHAPSODY? I would not recommend it; as Mary-Sue as published fiction gets, in the standard quest fantasy format.

No firsthand experience with the others, though I've heard good things about Mistborn.

[ulkis.livejournal.com]

I found the Kushiel books good but you have to have a high tolerance for porn. I decided the first trilogy sounded too smutty for me and skipped to the last three, which I found intriguing. But the first trilogy focuses more on female protaganists.

(Sorry, I don't think I even formally de-lurked on your lj, even though I commented before, so I apologize if I'm being repetitive. Anyway, I found you via friends' friends. :) )

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Hi! I'm used to lurkers! But yeah, I'm pretty sure I've seen you before.

I think I actually picked up the first Kushiel book on a whim a while back, but I'm not sure where it is.