Chosun Era costuming question

[meganbmoore]

As I mentioned a few days ago, I'm watching the sageuk Dae Jang Geum. It's set in Korea's Chosun era, and there's this one costuming thing that's been bugging me. Basically, when the women go out, they wear what looks to be a coat draped over their shoulders. At first I thought it was a cloak with nothing to fasten it, and that's why they were always clutching it closed at the neck, but then I realized that, nope, those were definitely sleeves dangling loose and flapping behind them as they hurried along.

Does anyone know if there's a particular reason that they drape them over their shoulders and hold them on instead of just wearing them? It seems extremely impractical to me, especially when they sometimes travel for an hour or two holding it on. If it were a cloak with nothing to fasten it, I'd get that it was from necessity, but every time I see those sleeves flapping, I want to jump into my TV screen and ask them why they aren't just wearing the things.

Does anyone know if there's an actual historical/cultural reason for this, or if it's just an odd aesthetic decision?

I tried to find a picture of this, but 40+ pages of google images and 16 pages of soompi gave me nothing.

Comments

[melonfusion.livejournal.com]

I've not seen Dae Jang Geum, but I think there's a similar thing in Iljamae (2008) and a friend of mine who knows a lot about Korean history explained that it was something married women of a certain class did. Which, unhelpfully, I can't remember what she said about why or when it started/ended. But, I hope I've been vaguely helpful!

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Hmm...maybe. The kitchen/court ladies are referred to as "new brides," so I guess that makes sense.

As far as the drama doing it. The custom itself...

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I've seen many many period dramas do this, in addition to DJG. I would imagine it's historical because otherwise it would be an odd thing for all these random dramas from different channels, different production teams to agree on.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think I've seen it in other dramas, just not this much. Multiple scenes per episode since about episode 3.

Unfortunatrely "a lot of things do this" doesn't necessarily mean it's historical. Look at how many historical shows and movies in the US do the same costuming things wrong, or all the book covers/movies where cloaks don't close in the front so that the pesky cloak won't hide the costume. So while I'd really like it if being in a lot of things meant that it was a historical thing (and in this case, I pray that it is) I'm too jaded by US costuming to have faith.

BTW< have you seen any of DJG, or just including it? *random curiosity*

[madame-manga.livejournal.com]

In Japan about the same time, they had an even odder way of wearing a gauzy outer kimono -- they'd drape it over their heads like a veil and hold the lapels to keep it from sliding off, so their hands are constantly up in the air, level with their temples. Looks strenuous. But perhaps no more uncomfortable for fashion's sake than walking in Jimmy Choo heels. :P

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

They do that here too! Usually to hide their faces, it seems...

[mierin-sama.livejournal.com]

Its been a while since I watched this drama, I couldn't figure out what you meant. But I did some searching, and this is what I came up with. Check out this link and scroll down until you see Ssukae Ch'ima.

http://www.lifeinkorea.com/culture/clothes/clothes.cfm?xURL=female
It says they're worn during the Chosun Dynasty.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

Hmm...it actually looks more like the Changot, just above the Ssukae Ch'ima. The Ssukae Ch'ima doesn't look to have sleeves, and has a ribon so that it can be tied on. What they're wearing here (at least where I am) has sleeves and no ribbon or (that I recall) belt. Hmm...looking again, it also says the Changot was for noblewomen, and the Ssukae Ch'ima by women of the lower classes.

And now if I could just figure out why someone a few hundred years ago thought it was a good idea!

[mierin-sama.livejournal.com]

They can hide their faces with it. It makes them look mysterious ^^

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

And now if I could just figure out why someone a few hundred years ago thought it was a good idea!

If you are expecting fashion (whether ancient or modern) to always have a logical, practical explanation at the root of style choices, YOU WILL ONLY GIVE YOURSELF HEADACHES. Trust me on this!

[tokyofish.livejournal.com]

Page 165 (http://books.google.com/books?id=e7pyBEWioLsC&pg=PA165&lpg=PA165&dq=how+to+wear+changot&source=web&ots=yaWjjKaXqf&sig=i1LBIVY8NG2uOxyC3Wl-D1oMUvw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA165,M1)

Maybe they have to be covered when they go out for propriety's sake but it's too hot to actually wear it and it's stupid to fashion another piece of super-expensive clothing when your jacket can just double? *shrugs*

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Hmm...maybe. Except they also run around without it. It seems to be used to ward off wind/chill for the most part. I thought it was for propriety st first, but then I noticed them also taking it off while they were out.

[troisroyaumes]

I know what you're talking about and here's a photo for reference: http://makcbg0.com.ne.kr/frame2.htm

The page says it was worn to hide the face for modesty, and while it looks like a 두루마기 (durumagi) which is worn like a coat, it's actually a little different in shape: the collar is different and it has two sets of ties just beneath the collar.

Actually, the page says the reverse of what you said above: the 쓰개치마 (sseugae chima) is reserved for yangban classes, while the 장옷 (jangot) is used by married women of all classes.

Ah, this page gives the history a bit: http://www.encyber.com/search_w/ctdetail.php?gs=ws&gd=&cd=&q=&p=&masterno=133134&contentno=133134

Apparently, it used to be worn by men during the early Joseon dynasty, but then became exclusively the overhead garment of women later on.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Ah, cool. I guess one is wrong? Or I misunderstood.

[troisroyaumes]

Well, it's hard to tell, but I checked the encyclopedia here, which also says that jangot was for commoners while sseugae chima was for those of yangban descent: http://www.encyber.com/search_w/ctdetail.php?masterno=727432&contentno=727432

That makes sense to me because Janggeum & co. are considered servant class, not yangban, even though Janggeum technically can claim higher status through her father.

This is purely my speculation and isn't backed by any source at all, but judging by the fact that unmarried women (of high birth) did wear sseugae chima (you see this in certain historical dramas), I wonder if the adoption of the jangot didn't initially start as a signal of married status (i.e., you wore your husband's jangot to show you were married). The sseugae chima probably evolved first as women just taking an extra skirt from their wardrobe when they went outside and needed an extra layer.