The Forsyte Saga eps 3-4
Feb. 20th, 2009 02:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
meganbmooreIt’s probably a testament of some sort as to the overall quality of this that I can keep watching something where there are so many characters I dislike.
Somehow, Soames being portrayed as a vaguely sympathetic and understandable human being is creepier than when he’s a complete monster. Not that he came anywhere close to actually being written sympathetically, it just showed things a bit more from his perspective. It’s also surprisingly easy to see how his more immediate family and the aunts would think he’s so wonderful, because he really does look like the perfect husband and gentleman if you aren’t married to him or somehow never see his bad side.
I think the worst part of his raping Irene, though (not that the entire scene wasn’t horrific) was his line to the effect of “Why can’t you be nice to me for once?” (I think I changed up the wording slightly, but I don’t have what it takes to rewatch the scene and make sure I got it right.)
Mild tangent: While the show-and fiction in general-showed the line to be horrible and proof of his evilness, it made me realize that there are probably people out there who ship them. Because I’ve seen fans voice a similar mindset before. I’ve seen it regarding season 6 of Buffy, and Spike’s attempted rape and how she shouldn’t have dumped him and should have been nicer and more understanding, so it was her own fault, and I’ve seen people say it about the heroines of romance novels and shoujo before. That they deserve “forced seduction” and being pressured and being grabbed because it’s not like their bodies are sacred, so they should give the poor guys a break and give them what they want. (Right now, I’m thinking of a thread someone linked me to a while back that started out being about yaoi, but turned into how much females in manga sucked, and about how shoujo heroines were particularly bad because they put up such a protest over the “poor guy” wanting sex and should just let the guy cop a feel, because they weren’t anything special.)
So, yeah, there are probably people out there who ship Soames and Irene and think everything is her fault (not that she doesn’t have other faults). It makes me want to cleanse my brain of all knowledge of fandom.
June remains far, far too nice for her relatives. Her immediate family is fine, but beyond them…
I kind of wanted to smack Irene for comparing June to Soames. I mean, how does a teenaged girl trying to deal with her fiancé dumping her for her best friend compare to a gu y who treats everyone around him like a possession? Especially when the person saying it was raped by the man in question not even two days ago. But then, I think she was also partly reacting from her own guilt in betraying June. Mostly, I’m annoyed at yet another female friendship being ruined by a guy who (IMO) wasn’t good enough for either of them.
I mean, really, who wants a guy who basically forgets all about his fiancée almost the second he meets her pretty best friend, and never seems to feel any guilt at all about it? Actually he almost seemed proud about it or something.
But I like that June was still happy that Irene left Soames and that she tore into Soames for both Irene and Bosinney, and later when she defended Irene to the family at Old Jolyon’s funeral, even though she was angry and hurt about Irene’s relationship with her grandfather.
But is every single Forsyte man going to fall for Irene? First there was Soames, though that was more possession than love. Then Bosinney, who was a good job and a ceremony away from marrying into the family. And then Old Jolyon seemed to be in love with her, and it’s been pretty clearly set up for her to have a relationship with Young Jolyon by the end. And they emphasized that by having June say that the people she loved most were always drawn to Irene.
In case you can’t tell, I’m mostly interested in the series for June and Irene, though Young Jolyon has grown on me.
I wish, though, that we could have seen more of June reconciling with Young Jolyon, and when she met her half-siblings, not to mention also seeing her stepmother for the first time since she was 5 and sick and they ran off together.
Somehow, Soames being portrayed as a vaguely sympathetic and understandable human being is creepier than when he’s a complete monster. Not that he came anywhere close to actually being written sympathetically, it just showed things a bit more from his perspective. It’s also surprisingly easy to see how his more immediate family and the aunts would think he’s so wonderful, because he really does look like the perfect husband and gentleman if you aren’t married to him or somehow never see his bad side.
I think the worst part of his raping Irene, though (not that the entire scene wasn’t horrific) was his line to the effect of “Why can’t you be nice to me for once?” (I think I changed up the wording slightly, but I don’t have what it takes to rewatch the scene and make sure I got it right.)
Mild tangent: While the show-and fiction in general-showed the line to be horrible and proof of his evilness, it made me realize that there are probably people out there who ship them. Because I’ve seen fans voice a similar mindset before. I’ve seen it regarding season 6 of Buffy, and Spike’s attempted rape and how she shouldn’t have dumped him and should have been nicer and more understanding, so it was her own fault, and I’ve seen people say it about the heroines of romance novels and shoujo before. That they deserve “forced seduction” and being pressured and being grabbed because it’s not like their bodies are sacred, so they should give the poor guys a break and give them what they want. (Right now, I’m thinking of a thread someone linked me to a while back that started out being about yaoi, but turned into how much females in manga sucked, and about how shoujo heroines were particularly bad because they put up such a protest over the “poor guy” wanting sex and should just let the guy cop a feel, because they weren’t anything special.)
So, yeah, there are probably people out there who ship Soames and Irene and think everything is her fault (not that she doesn’t have other faults). It makes me want to cleanse my brain of all knowledge of fandom.
June remains far, far too nice for her relatives. Her immediate family is fine, but beyond them…
I kind of wanted to smack Irene for comparing June to Soames. I mean, how does a teenaged girl trying to deal with her fiancé dumping her for her best friend compare to a gu y who treats everyone around him like a possession? Especially when the person saying it was raped by the man in question not even two days ago. But then, I think she was also partly reacting from her own guilt in betraying June. Mostly, I’m annoyed at yet another female friendship being ruined by a guy who (IMO) wasn’t good enough for either of them.
I mean, really, who wants a guy who basically forgets all about his fiancée almost the second he meets her pretty best friend, and never seems to feel any guilt at all about it? Actually he almost seemed proud about it or something.
But I like that June was still happy that Irene left Soames and that she tore into Soames for both Irene and Bosinney, and later when she defended Irene to the family at Old Jolyon’s funeral, even though she was angry and hurt about Irene’s relationship with her grandfather.
But is every single Forsyte man going to fall for Irene? First there was Soames, though that was more possession than love. Then Bosinney, who was a good job and a ceremony away from marrying into the family. And then Old Jolyon seemed to be in love with her, and it’s been pretty clearly set up for her to have a relationship with Young Jolyon by the end. And they emphasized that by having June say that the people she loved most were always drawn to Irene.
In case you can’t tell, I’m mostly interested in the series for June and Irene, though Young Jolyon has grown on me.
I wish, though, that we could have seen more of June reconciling with Young Jolyon, and when she met her half-siblings, not to mention also seeing her stepmother for the first time since she was 5 and sick and they ran off together.
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no subject
Date: 2009-02-20 08:59 pm (UTC)I remember that line, and I think it's a fascinating testament to how completely oblivious Soames is to what a horrible monster he is. He really does think that he's the victim here. D: Though it may make you feel better to know that his fucktardery consistently makes his life more and more miserable and empty. All he wants in life is to be loved, and he never ever gets that.
Bosinney was an ass. Pretty, but an ass.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-20 09:11 pm (UTC)Bosinney...yeah. I never really thought I'd hate a character played by Ioan Griffud (sp?), but this proved me wrong. I mean, I have problems with Young Jolyon, but he tried to be honorable and to do the right thing, he just (IMO) went about certain parts of it badly, and he seems to still feel guilty about his behavior and decisions. Bosinney, OTOH, seems to think it makes him brave and daring, and felt no guilt. THEY BOTH DESERVED SO MUCH BETTER THAN HIM!
no subject
Date: 2009-02-23 09:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-02-23 04:45 pm (UTC)The ONTD comment reminds me of when I watched soaps as a teen. There was a character, Todd, on One Life to Live who instigated a gang rape on his tutor, and it was implied that he had raped other girls in the past. Eventually, though, they started making the character toe the line between villain and anithero. (My understanding is that he stayed villain because the actor didn't think he should be a hero.)
He eventually left the show (though he later came back) for 2 reasons. (1) Female fans would scream "rape me, Todd!" at hime, and (2) no doubt due at least partly to the fans, the show was moving him in a direction to eventually be the love interest of the woman he raped. So they "killed" him, and his death was his sacrificing his own life so she and the guy she loved could escape or some such.
I didn't start watching until after all this went down and he'd returned to the show, and being a teenager, I did fall victim to the whole thing where you like the actor or part of the character and overlook the rest, but it stuck with me when I learned about why he left the show, and a lot of my liking switched to respect for the actor, who supposedly only came back after being promised that she show wouldn't write away or minimize his being a rapist, or make him be forgiven.