Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

[meganbmoore]

So, am I the last person in the world to see this? I think I probably am. It was just TOO LONG to go see in theaters.

Anyway...I liked it. Not that it should surprise anyone, as I am VERY EASY to please when it comes to adventure and swashbuckling(as long as it really is swashbuckling...yes, I remain bitter over my non-swashbuckler set of epic swashbucklers.) The first movie, of course, remains by far the best, but I'm happy with both sequels.

Mostly, I'm just happy that awful Jack/Elizabeth thing was almost completely dropped(as much as could be without pretending it never happened. Here's the thing, it doesn't matter if you like Will/Elizabeth, Jack/Elizabeth, Jack/Will, think they should be a threesome, think Will's a loser, think Elizabeth's a hussy, think romantic subplots are dumb, or whatever. The simple fact is that within the first 25 minutes of the first movie, it was obvious that Will/Elizabeth was the epic romance, and that their romance would be a major plot of the movie/series(especially the part where they like to tear apart the Caribbean looking for each other), and that there was no way it was ever going to go any other way(let's face it, one thing you can count on in a swashbuckler is that it's going to have a clear-cut epic romance to help carry the story.) The hints of Jack/Elizabeth in the second movie was, IMO, very mean, as it was clearly catering to the people who wanted that to lead them on, but with no intention of following through on it. Will and Elizabeth's chief motivation throughout all three movies was saving the others, and what Elizabeth did to Jack was essentially a higher stakes version of what she did to Norrington in the first movie...using his attraction to her to get what she wants(Will.) They just played it to cater to the Jack/Elizabeth shippers to make sure they came back, with no intent of actual delivery.

(And if you ask me my opinion on the importance of the relationship between Jack, Will and Elizabeth, I'd say Will and Elizabeth taught Jack how to care about other people, and Jack pulled them out of their narrow little social class defined lives so they could go after what they wanted and pursue a life of their choice, instead of staying the way they were and being miserable. That, and their all learning that no one is inherently good or bad, it's all about the choices you make and what you do with your life.)

A few quick comments beyond that(and if you haven't seen it yet-though I'm pretty sure everyone has- then START SCROLLING NOW TO ESCAPE SPOILERS because I'm too lazy to use a cut) because it's late and bedtime:

*Ok, seriously, what kind of blackmail material does Keira Knightley have over Jerry Bruckheimer to get to kiss half the guys in this series? Were they just trying to cover all possible het shipping possibilities? If so, then we should probably be greatful they didn't find an excuse for Elizabeth to kiss Barbossa, too.

*How much does it suck to be Norrington? Will's supposed to be the naive one(though really, I think he got over that midway through the second movie) but really, it's Norrington. Will learned, but poor Norrington was really just too naive(and blindly in love with Elizabeth) to ever stand a chance. Only real mistake he ever made was being in love with a girl in with someone else who will sacrfice anything and anyone for the other guy. Even his "betrayal"(which really wasn't one, as he didn't owe any of them anything, but rather, lost everything because he helped them) was just his trying to get back what had been taken from them.

*It took far, far too long for Jack to show up. Seriously. (And then there were just too many characters altogether, honestly.)

*Was anyone able to keep up with all the betrayals? At all? I think I did for the first hour, then I just gave up and waited for the hijinks and fights. One day, I should count all the betrayals in all three movies(and I should do the same thing with Jason Bourne and his tendency to wreck cars with the Bourne trilogy)

*I'm not sure if that was the best or the worst wedding ever. Certainly very poorly timed. But then, look what happened when they tried to do it the proper way...

*If I didn't know the part of the curse that got cut from the movie(that the reason Davy Jones was so mad at Calypso for not being there after the first 10 years was because if your true love is waiting faithfully for you, then the curse is broken) I'd be rather annoyed. All that and you only get to have sex one day every ten years? Especially given what they went through to have it legally? Would suck. And we've already seen how irked Elizabeth gets when she expects to get to have sex with Will and doesn't.

*So, who else thinks that Jack and Barbossa will now spend the next few decades stealing the Black Pearl from each other and bickering their way across the seven seas?

I will now post an MV of the trilogy and head to bed:

Comments

[kingcrankycat.livejournal.com]

(And then there were just too many characters altogether, honestly.)

And every single one of them is a pirate by the end...

If I didn't know the part of the curse that got cut from the movie(that the reason Davy Jones was so mad at Calypso for not being there after the first 10 years was because if your true love is waiting faithfully for you, then the curse is broken) I'd be rather annoyed

Except that, by being cut, it's not longer canon and could potentially be ignored for the inevitable sequels (unless they do release an extended edition set with it included, but even that doesn't assure canon status)

So, who else thinks that Jack and Barbossa will now spend the next few decades stealing the Black Pearl from each other and bickering their way across the seven seas?

I hope so, their bickerings were the best parts of movies 1 & 3

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I am especially fond of all the belaying of each other's orders in the third movie(and then Elizabeth coming out above both of them anyway.)

The curse breaking was actually stated to be canon when the movie was in theaters, but it's apparently been retracted since then, which probably means there will be another movie all about saving Will from the curse(we've had a Save Elizabeth movie and a Save Jack movie, so I guess it's only fitting that there's a Save Will movie, too, though I'd rather they just stop while the stopping's good.)

[shadawyn.livejournal.com]

I only ready the first paragraph, because I haven't actually seen the last one yet, either. I need to rent it, but although I can sit through six episodes of anime, sitting through a single movie is difficult for me. Haha.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I can sit through a movie at home, but not many in theaters anymore. I think part of it is that the credits in anime lure us into thinking that it's shorter than it really is.

[shadawyn.livejournal.com]

Also, anime and 40 minute TV shows, with the credits rolling, have built in breaks. I'm fidgety. When movies demand I sit still for 3 hours, I got a problem. (I know, realistically, I can just pause it, but that's not the point--it's not a defined break!)

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Second-best wedding. The one that still wins the title would be a spoiler.

Dude. Will might not have a lot of time, but Lizzie's the frelling pirate King. You think she's going to sit around on an island and do nothing? Hah. She and Will can have sex, as long as they stay on the sea.

[kingcrankycat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the part I never got... everyone's acting like there's no possible way they could ever see each other until the 10 years are up, and I'm just sitting there thinking "you both have ships and there's no rule against Will going to other ships, what's stopping you?"

I'm sure the writers have a reason in mind, but they never state it in the movie and if it's as shaky as the "he can never go on land (unless he brings buckets...)" bit then I don't buy it.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

The land thing, just. Dude. Buckets, indeed. Because seriously, if the canon already supports that, the only reason I can see for Will and Liz not meeting is because he's too busy ferrying the souls of the dead.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of the problem is that it's never really explained how much of Davy and his men was the original curse, and how much was Davy breaking the rules...we only really saw Davy and his men leaving for a few minutes if it wasn't to fight or hunt...it's possible they just couldn't stay gone for much longer, and we don't know how much a person could be on Davy Jones's ship without getting stuck there...it is just a poorly explained curse all around.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I suspect I stumbled across the first while looking for sg1 icons and fled from the spoilers.

And...ehm...it's just a poorly defined curse in general, really...*points to other replies because there are so many*

[miss-dian.livejournal.com]

*cough* I haven't watched POC 3. So you aren't the last one to watch it :D For some reason I really liked POC 1 but then it got less interesting in the 2nd one hence the lack of motivation to watch the 3rd part? ^^

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Well, the second one was only half a movie, so of course it wasn't as good. Really, you have to have 2-3 together to say really good things about the second. But the problem is that the second, since it was essentially a buildup to the third, couldn't resolve anything or finish anything it started, so you had to wait to get any sort of payoff.

(plus the awful triangle)

[carrielh.livejournal.com]

The simple fact is that within the first 25 minutes of the first movie, it was obvious that Will/Elizabeth was the epic romance, and that their romance would be a major plot of the movie/series(especially the part where they like to tear apart the Caribbean looking for each other)

This is true facts. I liked them before AWE, but after that one was over I just kind of sat in the theater going "okay, OTP of the UNIVERSE."

What's frustrating about the curse is that I was completely satisfied with the reasoning the writers gave after the movie was over - that the curse would be broken in ten years because Elizabeth stayed faithful to him. But then I've heard that in the DVD booklet there's a section with questions from fans, the curse being one of them, and they contradict that answer by saying that Will is bound to the Flying Dutchman forever. I'm choosing to handwave this away, but still, frustrating.

And thanks for that music video! It was awesome.

Edit: Also, I think the wedding is tied for best wedding ever, but I'm not sure if you've seen the other one I'm thinking of.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it's the wedding lyssie is thinking of, which I suspect it's a wedding I accidentally stumbled accross icons of while looking for sg1 icons...maybe?

As far as the curse goes...well, as pointed out above, they probably changed it to make room for more sequels...like one all about freeing Will and having Will the 3rd on an adventure.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

There was a bit too much doublecrossing for my taste and also there was the plot hole of all plot holes with them playing like Liz and Will couldn't see each other for 10 years, because what exactly is keeping her from sailing out to meet him (he only has to be on water, right?) or from the two of them getting a rather large bucket for that matter? They should have explained the curse a little better if they were heading that angle. They ALSO didn't explain that she could break the curse if she waited for him and everything would go back to normal. They just leave everyone with the impression that Liz only gets to see him every 10 years, which, when you're married to someone who looks like that, would be frustrating enough to drive a person to drink.

[carrielh.livejournal.com]

I think the implication is that unlike Davy Jones, Will would actually be doing the ferrying souls job rather than just sailing around on the high seas or whatever. So I'd imagine he'd be in the land of the dead, somewhere Elizabeth couldn't easily get to him.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think there was too much doublecrossing for anyone's taste, really, but at least most of it had enough reason and context for me to follow along.

The thing about the curse is that we don't know how much is the curse itself, and how much was Davy Jones. Unless they had the heart, people pretty much didn't get off the ship very easily unless they went all fishy, but we don't know if that's because you aren't SUPPOSED to go on the ship if you're alive, or if it was just Davy Jones being evil. Similarly, we only ever saw them leaving the boat for fighting, hunting, or delivering threats, and they always went back to the boat when it was over. And again, we don't know if that's because you can't leave the boat unless it's on business, or if, again, it was just Davy Jones being evil. I think they were probably leaving things open so that they could either incorporate the better explanation into an extended edition, or have another movie all about freeing Will from the curse.

I have nothing to add beyond what everyone else said and you pointed out.

[bzoppa.livejournal.com]

But I'm commenting anyways.

Was anyone able to keep up with all the betrayals? At all?

That was one of the worst examples of screen writing I've ever seen. Okay, King Arthur might be worse but all the betrayals were stupid. Nothing ever happened! Build up, build up, build up... resolve without any actual action, just more talk and "betrayal." It's like they didn't want to film anything but them standing around talking and betraying each other 'cuz the entire budget was spent on the actors' salaries and the final scene. Did they even get anywhere?

I didn't know about the curse ending in 10 years and that's a rather retarded omission. Or, it should never have been publicized and let us all think (retardedly) that they get to see each other once every ten years.

*love* Jack Davenport (Norrington). I actually have a British miniseries called Ultraviolet about some kind of mutant vampires, with him and Susannah Harker (Jane from 1995's BBC miniseries Pride and Prejudice)... which I haven't watched yet. I should get on that.

Re: I have nothing to add beyond what everyone else said and you pointed out.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

The problem is that 2-3 were basically a six hour movie that should have only been 4 or so hours. There was just...too much.

I don't think I know of anyone who doesn't like Norrington. I imagine you have to try really hard not to like him(then again, I imagine you have to try really hard to not like any of the main characters)

[dr-crgirl.livejournal.com]

I skipped over the spoilers, I haven't seen this movie either, but the whole no jack/eli was a spoiler...but who cares. I'm so glad that they didn't continue with that, that's a good way to put it, catching his attention to get what she wants (will)! You have no idea how much I had to argue with some friends that 'no, there is NO jack/eli'. I should watch this now, i was somewhat disappointed with the 2nd film, because it felt lackluster, I mean it was good but I was never on the edge of my seat or even nervous.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I don't consider no Jack/Elizabeth to be a spoiler because there never was a Jack/Elizabeth...they were blatantly just catering to those who wanted a hint with no intent on carrying through. Even if you dislike Will/Elizabeth,t here's just no way Jack/Elizabeth is canonicallt plausible. Even when theywere hinting at it, it was obvious there was no way they could ever have Elizabeth choose ANYONE over Will...too much of canon revolves around Will/Elizabeth for me to understand how anyone could ever think it could be different.

The second film was essentially half a movie. It works better if you think of it that way.

[janlake83.livejournal.com]

i love the way that movie ended.... and i agree barbosa and jack would be stealing the pearl from each other until one dies

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Personally, I figure they'll strangle each other and the monkey and parrot will take over.

[kinkytinky.livejournal.com]

* Will IS naive. And stupid. Enough of both to believe everything he has gained or does gain is a result of his actions, when most of the time he just gums up the works. He also rules in the "betrayal" department.

* Norrington is doomed being the only one in a movie about pirates trying to do the right thing (most of the time, at least). If the movie was from his point of view, it could probably be considered film noir.

* How is having an outdoor wedding in heavy rain trying to do it the proper way? It made the opening of the second movie completely retarded, with Elizabeth waiting in the rain to be married before even knowing anything was wrong.

* If something was cut from the movie, how can it be canon?! This is the first time ever I've heard of this thing curse breakage thingie.

* Looking at the first film (since the characterization in the other two was inconsistent), Will and Elizabeth didn't teach Jack anything. Jack needed Will and found a bit of a kindred soul in Elizabeth, but overall Jack simply 'adopted' them into his world for a spell. IMO you could see him as a bit of a father figure to both, or at least the piratey equivalent of one.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

If something was cut from the movie, how can it be canon?! This is the first time ever I've heard of this thing curse breakage thingie.

It was very widely circulated when the movie was in theaters, and stated to be canon at the time. It is, however, apparently being retracted(likely so there can be a fourth movie about breaking the curse or something. I actually couldn't avoid the information myself.

Aside from Norrington and Will being naive, we shall simply have to agree to disagree and leave it at that, as it never gets anywhere(except to accomplish the opposite of your objective, and make me like Will even more.)