say wha-?

[meganbmoore]

I'm sorry, I'm slightly cranky due to about 4 or maybe a teeny bit more hours of sleep, so let me rant a teeny bit.

I've seen several people leaving anonymous comments basically saying "hi, your posts are interesting, but I think you have questionable taste/are wrong in these opinions/etc." in posts on my f-list.  Huh?  It would make sense if it was in the context of "we seem to disagree about some things, but your posts are interesting and we like some of the same fandoms, do you mind if I friend you?" but the anonymous thing just to make a comment like that seems to be in bad taste. 

(They've also all been with people where I disagree with them or something or other, but I'm not exactly worried about that...why disagree anonymously if I've disagreed using my name before?  Actually, I don't get the whole "anonymous" thing in general.  If it's not something you feel comfortable saying using a name, then why say it at all?)

I was going to rant a bit on various community posts I've seen lately implying that anyone who doesn't love slash is homophobic, and that not being a slash fan means you hate all slashers, but I am going to skip that and end on the happier note that I've been seeing lots of girllove posts the last few days, as well as rants from people-not-me-or-redbrunjaabout mass fan hatred towards/dismissal of female characters for having vaginas.  A nice reversal from what I usually see outside of some f-list posts.

Comments

[bzoppa.livejournal.com]

Actually, I don't get the whole "anonymous" thing in general.

Maybe they don't have lj names? I have a few people in DC who comment anon because they're too lazy to get their own name so they can see locked down posts.

I haven't seen any of the anon comments on yours, though. Could be a completely different context.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

i've had a couple annymouses come in to rip me into shreds over dramas in the past, but most anonymouses on my LJ are in icon posts. i assume those are people who use other journal services.

what i'm referring to are people i've seen in several ljs on the f-list who seem to just want to say "you're entertaining, but have bad taste"

[bzoppa.livejournal.com]

What asshats. I figured it wasn't the same as my case. I guess I find it hard to believe that people actually take the time to do that. Clearly I don't spend much time on the web or forums.

I see it on imdb sometimes. But for trolls to come around to your harmless journal seems... bizarre. And for it to happen a lot? That is strange and would be annoying.

I didn't have much to contribute here.

I do have 4 new volumes of Monster, of which I've already read 2. Making use of my free trial on amazon prime, I am!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Re: anons. Maybe it's because they don't have LJ accounts? I've had people use anon for that reason before.

But yes, that sort of thing is in bad taste.

I don't like slash, but I couldn't care less if others do. I dislike uncanonical het relationships too. Maybe that just makes me all-round mysanthrope.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think it's the way it seems they commented that seemed JUST to say "i think you have bad taste sometimes" and pretty it up that rubs me wrong. and, honestly, it's really easy to have an lj account just for commenting. several on my f-list do.

"I don't like slash, but I couldn't care less if others do. I dislike uncanonical het relationships too. Maybe that just makes me all-round mysanthrope."

Exactly. There are a few canonical slash pairings that catch me, but not many. I only have a problem with slash when it reaches the point of insulting a female character.

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

I still say the venom I see directed towards real girls who are painted as fanbrats dwarfs any pity I have for fictional characters that are hated on unfairly. I also feel uncomfortable pinning specific motivations on people, unless they outright say they dislike--or even hate--a female character because she is in posession of a uterus.

I know you're on record as saying you don't really 'get' slash, which is perfectly natural and understandable, but it does become frustrating when I commit the unholy duality of sins for daring to dislike a female character and liking a male/male couple in the same series, and end up getting tarred with the "rabid" brush because of it.

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

Err, not that I mean you're doing the tarring. Just in general.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

In all honesty, I genuinely believed that every slash fan out there rabidly hated every female character they encountered for daring to be a female near their male until about two years ago, because the first 4-5 years I was in any fandom, even the outskirts, that was literally all I saw. And by that, I do mean people specifically stating they hated her because she was a female, because she was a beard/in the way/etc. I was giddy when I finally met slash fans who weren't like that(not to mention my first ever other het fans in anime/manga about the same time) because I FINALLY had other females I could talk to about the things I loved.

I never consider whether a person likes slash or het or gen in friending, just whether or not they seem sane and intelligent and interesting, and if we like some of the same things(iirc, I friended you because your Kekkaishi posts on scans_daily are what got me to check it out, and you were specifically talking about Tokine being a good character at the time.)

And actually, some of the slashers I know are much more interested in strong female characters than many of the het fans I know. The thing about the "rabid fanbrats" is that, in most fandoms, they tend to be the vocal majority, so they're what the fandom gets associated with. They may not be the majority of the actual fandom(I haven't had much trouble finding ones who aren't for many of the fandoms I've picked upthe last year or so) butthe ones who fit the stereotype do tend to be what casual observers see the most, so they're what it gets associated with.

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you. I love Tokine so much, though I wish Yellow would use her more often than she does. I actually like female characters a lot--sweet ones, bitchy ones, sour ones, strong ones, weak ones...as long as they're interesting, it's a-ok with me!

I guess part of my problem is that sometimes the venom towards those "fanbrats" is terribly ugly. I don't like seeing female characters get bashed for shallow reasons, but I dislike seeing real girls bashed for their taste in romantic manga even less. I know to a lot of BL fans, fanbrats are an embarassment and a plague, but I look to it as a phase a lot of girls go through. For me, it wasn't bashing women, but from the ages of about 10-13 I desperately wished I was a boy, to the point where I got a little happy when people mistook me and my short hair as such.

A lot of these girls are still figuring themselves out, and a lot of manga and anime celebrates weakness in women--the ones that do badly in school, with "a good heart" and "perky" as their main traits in shoujo manga, or in shounen, where they're regulated to standing in the background as the male lead fights...I really adore a lot of characters like that based on their personalities alone, but I can understand why many female readers would feel extremely disenchanted with them. I think a lot of these female readers, especially at that age, are looking for themselves in fictional characters.

Look at the relatively popularity of Haruhi in Ouran--a smart, down to earth, bittingly witty shoujo heroine. When I was browsing through arrinfantasy, it really caught my attention how many of these 'fanbrats' where saying they liked her because they could relate to her--in a way they probably can't to a lot of other heroines.

Do I think this excuses rampant bashing? Well, no one likes seeing their favorite characters bashed. Even though I know, for example, Wolfram has a lot of very negative qualities that one could find VERY off-putting, I still sort of inwardly bristle when I see people that bash or dismiss his obvious (to me) character development. In other words, no, bashing of your favorite character isn't very fun to read, and it also leaves you with a bad impression when you think the person doesn't have a good enough reason to dislike a character.

But the problem is is that for many people, it's easier to bash than it is to type out why something bothers them about a character. Fixing on shallow traits is usually easier than spending time dissecting something you don't like very much anyway.

Err, basically, tl;dr? I prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt, and while I can understand why character bashing is annoying, I think it's a phase that most people will grow out of and look back on with no small amount of embarassment, because the ones that usually partake in it are very young. I think challenging them with a calm "why do you think that?" tends to be easier than saying they should all be drowned or killed.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

"10-13 I desperately wished I was a boy, to the point where I got a little happy when people mistook me and my short hair as such."

This statement amuses me, as the main reason I started growing my hair long at about that age was because I got a boyish cut at one point and was mistaken for a boy. I think all the boys I knew at that age were too bratty for me to ever wish I was a boy, maybe?

Do you mean Wolfram in KKM? I've only seen the first season of it, but IIRC, I was in equal parts amused and annoyed by him, but in the positive way, not a "shut up and go away" way. I largely enjoyed the insane humor and poking fun at shoujo and shounen-ai and magical girl tropes, and Wolfram played well into that. That's also a good example of a slashy series that also loves having strong and fairly prominent female characters.

I think a lot of it is that, in many places on the net, it's considered taboo to say anything negative about male characters, but "in" to find fault with female characters. I've seen a lot of people making every excuse than can for a male character to excuse a trait or flaw they dismissed a female character for having. A lot of it, also, in terms of the fact that fiction in general(though it does stand out more in manga) acknowledges weaknesses in female characters but rejects the idea of male characters with them, is that when that does enter the equation, and acknowledging those weaknesses making someone think of their own, it takes on the aspect of taking out your own problems on someone else, which tends to ignite a "get over it" reaction in a lot of people.

"manga and anime celebrates weakness in women--the ones that do badly in school, with "a good heart" and "perky" as their main traits in shoujo manga, or in shounen, where they're regulated to standing in the background as the male lead fights...I really adore a lot of characters like that based on their personalities alone"

I actually generally adore these characters myself, barring the shoujo romance ones who just...really don't seem to have a brain or a spine and just seem to be there to worship the guy. Those don't seem to be getting licensed as much these days, though. Or maybe I'm just missing them.

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

Do you mean Wolfram in KKM?

Yep, the very same! Actually he's a very popular character, so I really don't have much to complain about as far as bashing goes, he was just the one that popped into my head because it was some of the most recent I could think of.

I think a lot of it is that, in many places on the net, it's considered taboo to say anything negative about male characters, but "in" to find fault with female characters.

See, I don't really think that's the case in my experience. If anything, bashing of male characters is treated as perfectly natural, but bashing of female characters? It MUST be because you're terribly jealous of them--and how insulting is it to accuse a real person of being jealous of a fictional one?

Take for example, well, I don't know if you watch Code Geass, but the widespread bashing of Suzaku (unfortunately my favorite character) is so constant and so vicious that I've eventually just had to limit my participation in that fandom to babbling about the Arthurian legend references. Suzaku is handsome, and very, very physically fit--almost the super soldier type.

No one EVER accuses his bashers of "hating him because he's a guy" or "being jealous" or "because he steals your favorite away from you"--even though their reasons can be just as ridiculous as "I hate his face". There is an undercurrent of reverse-sexism when it comes to "bashing bashers" that is very disturbing to watch sometimes. Even if you hate a character for stupid reasons that doesn't mean you're jealous, ugly, or stupid. We're talking about fictional characters here. As much as I love Suzaku, it would be absurd for me to try to paint everyone that loathes him as stupid.

No character is universally likeable. Fans of BOTH genders--man, there is a lot of Sakura-bashing males out there, and the most vicious Rukia/Oroihime bashing I've seen is inevitably done by guys--tend to be harder on those that hesitate, are hypocritical, seem weak, or "useless", regardless of how fascinating they might be.

barring the shoujo romance ones who just...really don't seem to have a brain or a spine and just seem to be there to worship the guy.

That's what turns me off of shounen manga, actually. Most of what I read is shoujo and a lot of times it's because I love the heroines. I hate watching the heroine have no purpose aside from "main cheerleader/kidnapping bait", which seems to usually happen in shounen series. At least in shoujo, the heroine is important.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Part of the thing with female character bashing/dismissing is that the most vocal(in my experience) is directed towards love interests, and very often, the person doing the bashing will ship her love interest with their personal favorite. I don't watch Code Geass(probably will eventually) but a friend actually watched the first few eps today, and mentioned that he and a female character with red hair(or was it green?) seemed to be the most hated characters, and didn't get why because they both seemed pretty decent.

Sakura bashing is why I never touched the Naruto fandom(the objection seemed to be that she was shallow and bratty and outgrew that and actually became as better character and person) but I've actually managed to avoid most Rukia and Orihime bashing. Orihime, I think, suffers from the instinctive dislike for princess-y characters most people seem to have, while Rukia suffers the normal shounen heroine problem of being introduced as a fighter, then getting sidelined as more guys are added to the cast.

"At least in shoujo, the heroine is important."

I think this is where the "having read different things" comes into play, because in a lot of the shoujo I've read(maybe 2 out of 3?) it's seemed that the heroine was there as an excuse for the guy/s, and they often seem to be there to sigh and moon while the series focuses on the guy having all these issues and angsts. Shounen heroines may get sidelined, but they often serve as a lynchpin for the series in some way or another, such as to drive the plot, or being the one who emotionally holds things together. I can handle always getting kidnapped if the kidnapping means she's important to what's happening. Shounen heroines also tend to be more prone to snark and less prone to doing nothing when he pulls alpha behavior(not that all shounen heroes are alphas.)

ETA: Sorry to come back a couple hours later, but I thought of a way to try to explain what I was saying about the character bashing a little better(I hope) There's "I don't like this character because of X quality" "I don't like this character because of X quality and don't see why this character likes them" and "I don't like this character because of X quality, and I prefer their love interest with this other character."

When I see male characters bashed, it's usually just the first. The only exception I've really come across in my fandoms is Will Turner in POTC, and possibly Duncan Kane in Veronica Mars. (For example: in Super Gals!, I understand why Aya likes Rei. Initially, I liked him for the same reasons. Eventually, though, I came to dislike him intensely for the way he treated her. Duncan is a little harder for me to distinguish between. I disliked Duncan because of the way he treated and allowed others to treat Veronica, as well as because I view him as having raped her. I disliked him even more when they dated again in Season 2, but while I know part of the increased dislike was because he still didn't defend her or put effort into things for her, I alsorealize there's the possibility that the dislike wouldn't have increased as much if they weren't dating.) When I see female characters bashed, it often comes with one(or both) of the addendums. When the addendums come into play in a discussion of the character, the perception is that, if the character WEREN'T the other character's love interest, or at least one party wasn't interested in the other, then the dislike or problems wouldn't still be there.

I hope that made sense.

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

Part of the thing with female character bashing/dismissing is that the most vocal(in my experience) is directed towards love interests, and very often, the person doing the bashing will ship her love interest with their personal favorite.

But, is that because they're jealous or because most female characters in manga are usually reduced to 'love interests'? I mean, I'm really under no delusion that the purpose in almost every shounen manga is for the main heroine to be the hero's romantic focus. If that romantic focus comes across as wrong to you, then I think that's a valid reason for disliking the character.

Also, you get the problem where people assume that you dislike the love interest in the couple because you want to hook your favorite up with someone else. For example, Akari from Hikaru no Go--whom I disliked with Hikaru because I think he treated her quite badly, and because I reject the notion a girl cannot move on from a childhood crush that was never reciprocated. I also like Hikaru with Akira, because the entirety of their focus is one one another for the entire manga, and the things they said to one another struck a romantic chord within me more than once--and I usually strongly dislike 'rival' pairings.

Isn't that the typical 'rejection of the love interest because I want to pair the two hawt guys with one another'? Well, I don't think it is. If I was younger, and less the type to analyze WHY I like a couple or characters, I could see myself becoming frustrated with Akari herself because it seems like she serves no lasting purpose in the manga except to be female, whereas in reality, I think she's just kind of boring and unfortunately written. Is it fair for me to demand that everyone make that distinction, though?

Also, I think many girls who dislike the given love interest will like another girl that fits their style better in the same manga. Whether a slash fan dislikes or likes Rukia or Orihime, they usually like and dislike one or the other, regardless of love interest status, depending on their personal taste in characters.

I didn't dislike Anzu from Yu-gi-oh either, but I didn't focus much attention on her because I didn't find her particularly interesting. On the flipside, even though Akira's husband in Galboy is handsome and a catch overall, she is my favorite character in that series by far--because I think she's fascinating. So sometimes I think it really does come down to rejecting a female character because they're unrewarding to read about as opposed to because they're a woman.

(As far as Kallen from Code Geass goes, she was one of the most popular characters in the beginning with both genders of fans, but lost a lot of popularity as the series progressed and her character, well, didn't. C.C., who is probably a much more blatant love interest is nearly universally liked because she is engaging to watch, and reactions on Shirley are mixed because her only purpose is to moon after the main character and provide a dramatic subplot to him.)

because in a lot of the shoujo I've read(maybe 2 out of 3?) it's seemed that the heroine was there as an excuse for the guy/s, and they often seem to be there to sigh and moon while the series focuses on the guy having all these issues and angsts.

I think that's more an issue of just reading the wrong shoujo manga. Glancing at my bookcases, I don't see many series that I think fit that description, but that's because that's usually not my preference in a heroine. I don't mind any personality when it comes to a heroine as long as they're ACTIVE in the plot. But I also don't mind flawed male love interests either--rapists aside, nothing is a quicker turn off for a series--as long as they interest me.

Anyway, have you tried either Skip Beat or Kaze Hikaru? Afterschool Nightmare is also one of the best shoujo manga currently being published in English, and I'll feel bad when it ends. Oyayubihime Infinity has a lovely, down to earth heroine that I really enjoyed reading about. And, who could forget Basara?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I barely remember what I read of Hikaru no Go(I mostly remember being eventually annoyed that Hikaru was constantly changing his set of friends, and didn't seem to think of the last set once he'd moved on, but it's been a while since I read it, and I've never read Yu-Gi-Oh, but this:

"If that romantic focus comes across as wrong to you, then I think that's a valid reason for disliking the character."

is actually something that never really sits well with me, because it comes across as blaming dislike for a storyline on a character, when to me, the character always seems to be more the victim of a bad storyline than anything else.

I love Skip-Beat, and Basara is my favorite shoujo ever. I tried Kaze Hikaru but couldn't get into it(don't know why, as it was very much my kind of fiction) and something about ASN kind of scares me, but I'm not sure what.

[musouka-manga.livejournal.com]

is actually something that never really sits well with me, because it comes across as blaming dislike for a storyline on a character, when to me, the character always seems to be more the victim of a bad storyline than anything else.

I do agree with this, actually, which is why I rarely dislike female characters, but I can't deny that the other way is probably a valid way to look at things too. If a character annoys you because she is badly written, then I think the knee-jerk reaction is to dislike the character, especially if they happen to be surrounded by characters you find interesting and enjoy reading about--and I really do think that a lot of girls are young to the point where they don't take the time to make that distinction yet.

Again, what everything boils down to for me is this. I would rather give my fellow female fans the benefit of the doubt and ask them to clarify their dislike than to make assumptions about them and pretend they should die in a fire--no matter how obnoxious they might be. After all, a fictional girl probably won't be hurt by someone calling her a slut, whether it's true or not, but real girls are hurt when they're insulted and mocked.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

The Die In A Fire/DIAF thing is something I've been seeing applied to both characters and real people AND IT FILLS ME WITH UNHOLY RAGE. Not only because of the obvious, but also because my understanding is that it comes from a female character in Torchwood's ancestor being burned as a witch, meaning it has connotations directly tied(in people's minds...in history, men and women both were tried and burned as witches, but popular culrture portrays it as primarily females) to women, specifically "evil" women.

[southerndave.livejournal.com]

I would have guessed that whole "die in a fire" thing had something to do with the "Kill [something or someone the person making the statement doesn't like] with fire" that I've seen now and again for the last few years - longer than Torchwood has been in existence, anyway. (And it is just a little bit worrying that you know more about Torchwood than I do...)

And as for the main discussion... I freely admit that some of what you read or watch would engage my interest about as much as what I am currently listening to would engage yours (in case you are wondering / boggling / quivering in horror, I am currently listening to a somewhat bizarre Portuguese heavy metal band that can't decide whether they want to be Metallica or Big Country when they grow up), but if I wanted to say anything along those lines I would say it as myself, not anonymously.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

That is just cowardly. If you have the balls to disagree, and need to say something, leave it an option for people to reply back.

And now we aren't the only fictional lesbians around? Awesome news!

Also, when you have more energy, I would love love love to read your rant on people equating homophobic with not liking slash, because hot damn have I seen that attitude before.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yup. Comments like those make sense if you want to friend someone, because that adds the tone of "I want to friend you, but I suspect we'll disagree sometimes, is that ok?" but without, it feels more like prettying up "neener neener, you may be entertaining, but you kinda suck."

I think it's just going around in general. Maybe it's the whole political climate thing, but the female character bashing the last several months seems to have increased, and I think the last few weeks(and my meltdown a while back) are the backlash against it. Which probably means it's cyclical...

Hmm...I probably won't make that rant, in all honesty. It bears a close resemblance to "slash means you hate all women in RL" and such, which tends to strike close to home for some, it seems(there is a difference between fictional characters and insecurities-when that is a factor, it isn't always-and how you approach people in RL), and I don't want to get deeply into either of those. All I know is that if I hated all slash fans or was homophobic, my f-list would be a lot smaller than it is.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

but without, it feels more like prettying up "neener neener, you may be entertaining, but you kinda suck."


Well put. And I am glad to see the reaction about all the women hating. Although thinking that it's cyclicial is less encoraging than thinking that some people got their heads out of their asses.

And don't worry about not making that rant - tonight, I will be bearing the torch for annoyed feminists everywhere (or in my little corner of lj land.)

It bears a close resemblance to "slash means you hate all women in RL" and such, which tends to strike close to home for some, it seems(there is a difference between fictional characters and insecurities-when that is a factor, it isn't always-and how you approach people in RL), and I don't want to get deeply into either of those.

I've had too many people with issues with their own gender and other women who are slash fans to push aside the whole idea of 'slash means you hate women' regardless of the feminists I know who love slash.

All I know is that if I hated all slash fans or was homophobic, my f-list would be a lot smaller than it is.

Same here.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Well....I don't think the LIKING is cyclical, just the vocal part.

And...uhm...I made a long but mostly(I think) non-ranty fandom-y post instead of the rant? And hated on Duncan Kane for a little bit in it?

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yay!

[re-weird.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's very annoying to see the rabid misogyny in fandom. I'm halfway convinced that the reason so many people hate Mai in Avatar is because out of nowhere she was the girlfriend of a really popular male character. Was there any rabid hate before that? But it's also a holding pattern in many other fandoms of course. On a fandom snark community, Fandom_Wank, you see it so often it stops being amusing and starts being mind-boggling.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I've thought that too. I didn't watch the first 2 seasons of Avatar until after Mai/Zuko, but I was somewhat paying attention and noticed that everything got more...rabid...when one of the things in the way of Katara/Zuko was another girl. It seemed like a boy with a crush wasn't much of a concern, but a girl the male in question likes? An actual problem. (Female third parties in het OTPs seem to get more backlash than male ones...I always wonder if it's because it's considered more OK for a girl to dump a guy/have conflicted feelings than for a guy to...I've never put a lot of thought into it, though, because I don't care for most romantic triangles, and dislike non-canon pairings about 95% of the time.)

[re-weird.livejournal.com]

I think it's several factors, though getting in the way of a triangle is an important one. For one thing, the more beloved character or main character is often male . Male characters generally are more important, so their girlfriends are only there for eyecandy or provide angst for the guy. The female fans are sick of women just being a love interest/acting stupidly because they're "in love". Add in the shipping factions and that's where some of the disproportionate hate comes from. Well, maybe. I'm just thinking out loud.

For example, Sakura was more often used as a storytelling device for Naruto and Sasuke; it wasn't till recently she was
a character with her own storyline that revolved around something other than those two. By then, however, the hate had set in. I'm not saying everyone who hates Sakura does so because of these reasons, of course, but it seems to be a presistant pattern across fandoms.

Sigh, it just seems to be this huge cycle.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Most female characters seem to have a purpose beyond "just" the love interest to me. Honestly, unless I just want a romantic story and nothing else, I don't bother with a lot of things if there doesn't seem to be more to the girl than that. I think that a lot of the time, people go "oh, she's justthe love interest" and don't bother to see that there's more to her than that.

I started out annoyed with Sakura, but turned to liking her fairly quickly, simply because she was the only one who really got some genuine CHARACTER GROWTH early on.

[re-weird.livejournal.com]

I actually like Sakura a lot too! I was just trying to give an example.

You're probably reading better things than I am then; a lot of times there'll be this guys and the chick. It's not a dealbreaker for me just because I see it happens so often.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Silly anon commenters. Tsk, tsk. At least sign a name!

Yay for girl!love posts. Now, if only we could get more people writing ficlets for "Because We Are Awesome". (I'd imagine it might also be a little bit of backlash against Open Source Boobygate)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think OSB contributes, but Ithink the current political climate has also been making things more prominent and sensitive in generalthe last few months.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

I hope it continues.

[droiche.livejournal.com]

I turned off anonymous posting for a reason. ^_~

Oh gods. Don't get me started on the "not being a yaoi/slash fan = homophobic" issue. I was internet stalked recently by a psychotic teenage girl from an RP group I used to belong to because I dared to admit that I prefer Saiyuki het. Excuse me? Some of my online friends really are gay or bi and none of them have a problem with me preferring het. -_-

I don't know about you folks but I'm tired of us het fans and fans who admire female characters having to circle our wagons and defend ourselves everywhere we go in our fandoms. If we don't stand up for each other and band together in our own wolf pack, we get lynched.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I, very frankly, do not care what a person's sexual orientation is, or whether they like slash, het, or just couldn'r care less about any pairing ever. I just care whether they're sane(or at least my kind of insane) relatively intelligent, and share interests with me, and are more about liking the interest in general than hating certain parts of it. I don't think someone who hates fictional characters hates people in RL, and I don't assume a person who slashes is homosexual in RL(some are, some aren't) and I don't assume a person who writes rapefic is a rapist in RL, or that they approve of rape(though I do have issues with rapefic in general.) I've been seeing a lot of intro posts lately, though, even more than usual, including a line that they like slash, and would prefer to not be friended by closeminded or homophobic people.

[droiche.livejournal.com]

Right. It shouldn't matter what someone's preferences are as long as we can have a decent conversation. We don't have to agree on everything. It just seems like common sense and simple courtesy have gone out the window. Folks on both sides of the yaoi/het fence are complaining about being oppressed yet turn around and bash the folks on the other side. That strikes me as hypocritical. We should all be honest about ourselves while being willing to accept that others have a right to do the same.

[kimiren.livejournal.com]

I was going to rant a bit on various community posts I've seen lately implying that anyone who doesn't love slash is homophobic, and that not being a slash fan means you hate all slashers,

lol i had a new friend I added a week ago and when she posted something like this i defriended her immediately. i just CANNOT STAND people who JUDGE and GENERALIZE saying something so hypocritical. i HAVE A LOT of gay friends i love and adore but it does not mean that i HAVE to love slash too. D:

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Hmm, pretty much. A lot of people seem to miss that disliking a habit or a fictional preference does NOT mean you dislike the person.

I also dislike the implication that, by not slashing, I oppose homosexual couples in fiction. While most of the ones that I've encountered don't interest me, I'm all for the practice IN CANON. I don't dislike homosexual pairings, what I dislike is the removal or undermining("he loves her but should do him at least once"...yeah, because casual sex with someone when you love someone else is really appealing) of canon het(and specifically, the female involved) for slash. I don't care for fanon pairings in general, het or slash, but I'm a little more accepting of het vs het than het vs slash, because at least the one doesn't boot the girl out for a guy.

[kimiren.livejournal.com]

Since you can't tell I'm nodding my head with each sentence. As is usual with my conversations w/ you:: Well. Put.

<333

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

There is a lurker in our midst. I used to comment as anonymous before I had my LJ account so I understand.. up to the point where they criticize your views. Criticism without leaving your name is a very bad taste IMHO. They could have said who they are, at least.

I am not a fan of slash (or girl/girl , I don't remember the name for it) but I certainly don't think this makes me homophobic. The "right for personal preference" should work this way as well as the other way.

But hating something, like female characters is TOTALLY different thing IMHO..

[(Anonymous)]

"Hi, I like to read your posts" without a name is fine, "Hi, I like to read your posts but disagree with you" while signing your name is respectful, "Hi, I like to read your posts but disagree with you" without signing your name is pretty much "neener neener."

girl/girl is also called slash, or femslash.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

and, ah, that was me

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Hi, I like to read your posts but disagree with you

Well, I don't think I would even mind this. But one of the comments I have seen (you must mean the same comment, I think) was calling some of the author's favourite things "trash". I think this was more of a name-calling and mocking disguised as a polite disagreement. I have a very good radar on these things. They are not on even without anonymos-ity.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I've seen several comments like it, actually. The one you're thinking of commented on a mostly unrelated post to say that she had questionable taste and that her favorite dramas were contrived(I don't remember "trashy" being used, unless it was another one.) And, honestly, I DISLIKE one of the dramas mentioned a lot(but like the other) and have disagreed with her about it before, but would never dream of making a comment like that, which sounded so very, very close to "hi, you're amusing, but your taste kinda sucks."

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I went back to the comment I have seen recently and it reads "and you loved dramas that sounded trash to me from the get go". And then of course - no offense. The way it sounds to me that the commenter haven't even seen dramas in question and already bags them as trash and "no offense" makes it worse because HUH? NO OFFENCE???

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just reread it. I remembered it as sounding more like it was about that specific drama, but on reread, it does sound like an approach to all. I think some dramas that are loved sound bad and have no plans to watch them because I'd rather watch something that sounds good, but unless I'm asked for my opinion on it or told it sounds right for me, I'm not just going to jump in an say so, especially in a post not even about that.